- cross-posted to:
- feminism@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- feminism@beehaw.org
In the hours following former President Donald Trump’s election victory, Google searches related to 4B — a fringe South Korean feminist movement that made a name for itself in the mid to late 2010s — surged in the United States.
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Judging from all the hurt feelings and angry defensiveness I’m seeing in this thread this might be an extremely effective form of protest. Fragile toxic masculinity is so predictable.
Bros here think they’re making solid points, but all I hear is “wah wah wah”. You hashtag notAllMen out there with dry stalks need to do a better job of challenging the misogynistic attitudes of your peers.
You can tell a protest is working when it causes people to elect the people you’re protesting against
I’m guessing you have a protest going against reading comprehension.
No, I have good reading comprehension relative to the average American. Do you want to try to explain to me how a protest that specifically targets progressive men is an effective way to get men to be more progressive?
“Just don’t be a bad guy and you won’t be the target!” This movement makes no distinction between conservative and progressive men, it is explicitly about absolute denial of sex, dating, marriage, and children.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m 100% in favor of women not dating conservative men if they don’t want to. A movement that draws attention to the fact that women have the option of breaking up with their boyfriends and divorcing their husbands would be fantastic. A movement that specifically tries to deny relationships to the people that you’re trying to deradicalize is not that.
But go ahead and keep downvoting me. I’m trying to explain how we need to avoid losing more voters, and you’re sitting there repeating the same shit that lost us those voters in the first place.
If you truly want to understand the nature of this protest, it’s important to understand where women are coming from with this.
No matter one’s sex or gender, the dating process can be exhausting. Guys are exhausted from always making the first move and getting nowhere for the effort. Women are exhausted from sorting through all the men and messages, most of whom show zero interest in her as a person. Cis-men don’t see the regular dehumanization and sexualization that all women experience upon entry to the dating scene.
On dating apps, so, so many guys will ignore profiles and send low effort messages like, “Ur pretty. Wanna hook up?” Checking messages can elicit the same feeling you’d get from clearing out your spam folder one email at a time… except each spam message expects you to suck its dick. Some even threaten violence if rejected. When women leave dating sites and dating scenes, that’s the male behavior they’re opting to escape from.
Now we also have (or are bracing to have) our reproductive rights taken away. We see the stories of pregnant women being denied care, suffering, and dying. We don’t want to become a reproductive rights martyr just because a condom broke.
This protest may have a consequence that men don’t like, but expecting women to give in just so progressive men can get laid ignores the issues that sparked this protest in the first place.
It tells us everything. It says you don’t understand what we’re going through. It says you don’t care what we’re going through. It says you think your desire to have sex is worth more than our very lives.
In a way, you’re proving these women right. If your attitude is reflective of other so-called “progressive” men, then I can’t blame any woman who chooses to have nothing to do with any men at all.
It tells us everything. It says you don’t understand what we’re going through. It says you don’t care what we’re going through. It says you think your desire to have sex is worth more than our very lives.
I was with you right up until this point. My single status has no effect on my political beliefs, and I’m going to keep voting in favor of your rights, no matter how much you try to tell me that I don’t care about you.
I’m entirely in favor of women exercising bodily autonomy. As a movement for protecting women, this is great. As a movement for affecting political change, this is not. Sell it as the former, and I’m in favor. Sell it as the latter, and I’m going to argue.
There are more goals than some grand, over-arching “change.” On an extremely basic, self-preserving level, there is a goal of “not getting pregnant while living in a country that actively endangers the lives of pregnant women.”
If it brings about change that would be awesome. But regardless of that, by swearing off relationships and sex, we’re still not getting pregnant. Ergo, we are able to keep our bodily autonomy. Which, I guess I have to remind you, we would lose if we got pregnant.
Unless (non-sterilize) progressive men have some special sperm that doesn’t attempt to fertilize an egg, creating an exception based on beliefs would still put our lives at risk.
Did you read the part where I said
I’m entirely in favor of women exercising bodily autonomy. As a movement for protecting women, this is great.
?
extremely effective form of protest
…i honestly dont think it’s going to achieve anything and it certainly won’t undo the election result
I mean you could go the opposite route and do a FWB style approach to votes in the next election. If withholding sex is the stick, what’s the carrot? Offering sex?
A decent proportion of votes for trump were protest votes and a disproportionate amount were young men. Why not invest the effort in understanding why it is they feel that the Republican party offers them something that the democratic party does not?
Wow, what an amazing ally to women you are. You are totally willing to just use our bodies and vaginas for your own goals, just like that, huh?
Well, what’s stopping you? You have two holes and two hands, presumably. Get to work buying votes. Plenty of conservative men like men. Download Grinder and you can start tonight. Stay safe.
Swing and a miss mate, can’t threaten me with a good time.
I live in Australia, voting is compulsory, women don’t have to withhold sex in order to foment political change.
You didn’t answer my question tho, what’s stopping you from understanding why young men in the us voted for trump? Especially young men who would “normally” vote democrat?
what’s stopping you from understanding why young men in the us voted for trump? Especially young men who would “normally” vote democrat?
Lmfao go fuck yourself. It’s YOU who doesn’t understand, ya fucking gender narcissist. I’m not automatically wrong because I’m a woman.
The reason men are moving rightwards is because of the global war we are already in. Russia has been making, disseminating, AND FUNDING VIA CRYPTO, right wing men and voices all over the world. They’ve done this en masse, all over every social media and video game, in Minecraft servers even. There are KGB books describing how they would go after divisions in America to create a civil war. They went after our military fighting force to cripple us with a civil war while they start WW3. The rush of superhero media after 9/11 and Call of Duty/military online games was a perfect breeding ground for this.
Russia is working with Saudi Arabia and Elon Musk to destroy journalism so we can’t communicate what’s happening. Since Khashoggi and the Panama Papers.
Trump is a Russian asset literally proven in court. It’s entirely possible he will start a civil war here soon. He will absolutely be siphoning money from the US to Russia. And we will be sending bodies to fight Russia’s wars too. Russian revenge is about to start. Trump will start to go after his enemies, likely Biden, Hilary, Obama, Taylor Swift, Kamala. All of those people should literally flee the country on Jan 20th and wait to come back until he’s not in office.
He’s under Putin’s control and look at what mercy Putin had for Navalny. Putin is going to get revenge on America and soon Germany and any other nation he feels justified in harming.
How do you all not see that? And then blame WOMEN? For an active hostile military propaganda campaign by a hostile nation?
Yeah ofc we don’t want to fuck men anymore. And yes, they would’ve have just gotten worse anyway because we were never the original cause, quite obviously.
Politically, we are asserting our rights to our bodies. It’s a profound political statement that already has men ITT discussing and debating, but ultimately the most important part is that women are asserting the power they have over their bodies. Only in a fascist state is that political or controversial.
But yeah it’s totally women’s fault men are going to get worse and that’s not just an excuse to abuse women more and blame them for it /s
Oh wow
I am conflicted, halfway between genuine concern for you as a human being and being completely unsurprised at six paras of unhinged ramblings.
Suffice to say - this only exists in your head, and there’s a reason you’re finding it hard to build meaningful relationships.
Good luck, I hope you feel better soon.
Lol do you want sources? Books? A book might be too much material for ypu though if you struggle with a few paragraphs. There’s a documentary called Active Measures with John McCain and Hilary Clinton that shows these ties, that could be more of your pace.
It started with 4chan and bitcoin. I always wondered how the dumbest people I ever knew, literal meth addicts without teeth who can’t explain what a stock is, could do well at crypto, an obvious scam. Well, it wasn’t a scam, it was UBI for rightwing movements and pedophiles and the worst of society.
Memecoins are still doing it. That’s why they are there and named stuff like “Trump Maga.” They are funneling money around, and crypto is especially ideal for transferring money between countries.
I’m not writing that last part for you, it’s clear you refuse to learn anything from a woman. Sad for you, good luck when the right wingers take over AUS the same way they got us. And I do indeed know this is happening over there too, the women over there talk about it and 4B a lot. So it very well may become your problem soon too.
you know, there’s a word for punishing a large group of people for the actions of a few
Gee, I guess you all should have really done the work to verbally address all the shitty lockerroom talk and misogyny you’d hear. It’s almost like when you say absolutely nothing, including while your friends catcall, verbally abuse us, or even just say misogynistic stuff, you get lumped in with them. Guess you should have tried harder to teach them how to not be abusive to women, like how ypu taught each other your favorite sports teams and players.
Because there was time for that conversation, wasn’t there? But no time to talk about respecting women or how weird violence towards women has gotten.
But don’t worry, you guys will gets lots of time and practice now.
Excuse me? I, like any self respecting man, speak up when I see someone who has no business calling themselves a human being, let alone calling themselves a man, disrespecting a woman, and if that fails to get them to stop, punch them in the face.
Thank you, however, for making that assumption and providing an example to demonstrate my point.
When exactly was the last time you punched someone?
Does the fact that I haven’t yet seen such an opportunity make me part of the problem?
So you’ve done nothing. Got it.
Meanwhile in the real world, nobody is actually going to do this except at the lunatic fringes. The net effect is probably a benefit if you’re a man looking for a serious relationship.
Or perhaps you could have acknowledged that LustyArgonianMana made a good point about your responsibility to call out misogyny.
Are you assuming I don’t?
We know you don’t.
It’s generally more polite and productive to assume people aren’t all horrible when you are trying to have a conversation with them. That’s assuming your aim is to win them over and not just protest.
That assumes you had any good faith in the first place. Women’s rights are being revoked and this is their response. And all you can do is cry about it. It’s very pathetic.
As a man, I’m support this movement. Mainly because we don’t need more people on this crowded miserable planet. 7 billions is more than enough, preferably 3-4 billions.
The best way to do this is increase the wealth of 2nd and 3rd world countries.
Well, to increase the education of women in those countries (and poor areas of developed nations).
Not just education. The country needs to be developed enough so that more children does not mean richer parents.
What do you mean? How does having more children make parents richer?
Children as a source of income: kids are labor for household chores in urban cities. They are used for agriculture and factories.
Retirement: Multiple kids means multiple incomes from which your “pension” will be funded.
Lmao all we need to do is deny men any meaningful relationships, that’ll deradicalize them for sure
I would love to hear other opinions. If you think that ostracizing the specific demographic that you needed for this election is a good idea, please let me know. Personally, I think it’s incredibly stupid. If the only women that a guy is able to get the time of day from are conservatives, I think that’s gonna make guys more open to conservatism.
Because people refuse to read the article, it says
The idea behind the movement is individual resistance against what it defines as a conservative political environment and the corrosion of reproductive rights.
This is explicitly a movement attempting to affect political change, at least according to the article that we’re discussing. I understand and support swearing off relationships for the sake of protecting yourself, but that is not the argument that the article is making.
During Trump’s last presidency a friend of mine told a guy who was making disgusting comments towards her to fuck off. You know what he did? He punched her in the face and broke her jaw. She needed surgery.
He got maybe a few weeks in jail and since he’s unemployed suing him for the medical costs was fruitless. This was in a blue state too.
Shit’s fucked up and I don’t know how else to help people understand that women are genuinely afraid of men for a reason. I’m sorry if that hurts some genuinely good dudes feelings out there. It’s not their fault some percentage of men act like feral animals and pull shit like this.
Then you have trump encouraging these types and it’s a really fucked up situation. All because some grown ass men with the self control of an infant can’t function in society without hurting people and need misogyny and racism to bolster their tiny egos because it’s the only hierarchy in which they aren’t on the bottom…since they’ve never accomplished anything worthwhile in their lives.
These violent men are often the same ones who raise their sons “not to be sissies” and teach them to repress their emotions because “crying is for girls.” That’s emotional abuse at best. There’s probably a lot of physical abuse accompanying that too.
Anyway, sorry about the length of this. My point is that the types of men who hurt women are often the same ones who abuse their sons and perpetuate the mental health crisis among young men which I’m sure contributes to the high suicide rates among young men.
I really wish people could understand we’re fighting the same enemy.
Yes, let’s generalize all men because of that fuckhead, or the few fuckheads out there. Meanwhile, the left wing femcels die out leaving conservatives behind. Cool strategy.
I don’t think it’s different enough from the norm to effect anything. Do you think men will even notice?
Yes?? They’ve clearly been noticing and acting out??
We are very much in the ’ village burning down ’ part of “A child shunned by its village will burn it down to feel its warmth.”
They were acting out before though. The 4B movement is a response to the abuse.
This is what’s happening, and if you really want to understand it I recommend the book “Controlling People,” by Patricia Evans:
- Man abuses woman because he feels loved when he violates her boundaries (instead of showing love by respecting boundaries in a healthy relationship)
- She asserts boundaries (a limit on her own self) as part of the human condition
- He then amplifies abuse to punish her for breaking from his control and for having boundaries, because it made him feel too separate and not enmeshed, which causes attachment wounds
They are mad they can’t literally abuse us into submission like Andrew Tate claims. They are mad we aren’t stupid and easy to manipulate, like they’d been lead to believe. They are jealous of beauty and happiness because they are so miserable because men lack community that is kind to women. And that’s all of ya’lls fault. Instead you made manipulative PUA groups.
They will keep amplifying their abuse, like literally all abusers (see: Why Does He Do That?) until we are dead or they are in jail. It doesn’t even matter if we behave “well,” all that matters to them is that we feed their ego of control and entitlement over us.
No. You don’t have to do that so neither will I.
Why don’t you warm up that guy yourself? A hole is a hole, right? Why don’t you suck off these on the fence guys to win them over? I’m sure there are plenty of bi and gay ones you can convince.
Ah yes, because women can’t be abusive.
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. If people like you continue to neglect the conditions that lead to young men being brainwashed by red pill, manosphere bullshit - things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better.
I don’t really care to read anything that paints men as abusive controllers. I’m interested in making things better, not making things worse.
If people like you continue to neglect the conditions that lead to young men being brainwashed by red pill, manosphere bullshit
What are you doing for this? Show me some screenshots from socials of your work there. I’ll accept even 1 comment in the last 2 weeks of you reaching out to a fellow guy debunking redpill content.
Remember, when Trump’s Youth doesn’t seem to be getting any weaker with each passing year - you did your part.
Wait so you can’t post any proof, not even a comment you made on social, of you speaking to a fellow man about redpill or manosphere content, to specifically stop them from being rightwing?
You can scroll through my entire comment history and can find me educating men about feminism constantly for free. Talk about unpaid women’s labor. It’s not me who didn’t do the work.
Yet again blaming women for the abuse of men. Literal victim blaming. Nice. Have you thought about how your actions drive women away?
Yes, because being part of the majority voting for Trump is clearly the same as being shunned. Women should just give up their bodies to these disgusting creatures for the good of the country ./s
The crux of the issue presents itself.
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now. You want to help create more MAGATs? Keep ignoring young men and the problems they have.
What is your suggested solution concretely? are blaming young women for the problems of young men.
No, they’re blaming the Democratic party and its online advocates for not taking young men seriously as a voting demographic
No, read their comment. They think women should fuck progressive men to stop them from becoming right wing.
You want to help create more MAGATs? Keep ignoring young men and the problems they have.
What are out of power left-leaning women supposed to do to fix the problems with these losers? They voted for the “we have problems and we’re being ignored” party after listening to bro podcasts all day and they will now control three branches of government.
Why is it ok for in power politicians to continually ignore the needs of the people voting for them? Why does nobody notice how “men’s problems” continue even as the spiteful fucks they vote for have massive amounts of power?
Fixing young men isn’t up to childless, left leaning, powerless women.
Have fun dealing with the new Hitler’s youth.
You too 👍
But what if you want a nice bit of cock? Seems like a bit of a crap movement.
Perfect example of who to skip fucking.
I am in a long-term relationship with a wonderful woman.
Why don’t you show her your dumbass comment.
She laughed and agreed it’s not a movement she’d be able to stay in for very long.
Dubious. Enjoy your loneliest years.
“Real women actually don’t like having sex with men” is a weird position to take bud
Good thing that’s not what I’m saying. Try reading, butt.
A message to my fellow guys: if you dislike this, guess what: it’s real easy to stop being the target of it. All you have to do is quit being a misogynistic, authoritarian piece of shit.
This isn’t targeted at just the shitty dudes. It’s no sex with any dudes period until they get their rights back.
For real, it’s astounding(not really) how much women appreciate not being treated and viewed like they are things to be owned and controlled
Respectfully, this isn’t on dudes.
Four and eight years ago young men overwhelmingly supported Bernie Sanders, and they were ridiculed for it. Dems even made up an epithet for it: Bernie Bros.
The perspective you’re showing in this reply is why Republicans won. You can’t make it very clear you don’t want young men to vote for you and then be surprised when they don’t.
What are you talking about? Bernie Bros are the diametric opposite of the problem. My comment is addressing all the men but them!
Never mind.
I’m wasting my breath, but thank you for the discussion.
Yeah man, gamer gate didn’t happen 🙄
You can live in 2008 and 2014, but I can guarantee you (if what you saw this week wasn’t enough) that people are a tad more concerned with their inability to pay for groceries and the necessity of rationing their meds.
The voters told Dems what they wanted. Dems told them to be joyful about being in poverty.
They didn’t vote Trump out of hatred of women. (Most, at least. Some surely did.) They voted Trump because Harris represented a very shitty status quo.
They thought Trump was going to save them from poverty? Did he save them from poverty last time?
The poverty wasn’t this extreme last time. That’s the issue.
More women voted for Harris, but there was still a giant number of women who voted for Trump. The women who voted for him won’t do this and the women who didn’t vote for him wouldn’t have dated been who did anyway.
Not all men backed the ugliness. (To lump them altogether is sexist.) The ones who didn’t should be supported.
wHy WON’t ThESE Women wHO ARe beIng oppRESSeD And HAVInG tHEir rIghts erodeD sUPPort mEn LIke Me WHo aRE tHe rEaL VIcTImS aNd CleArlY so syMPaTHETic tO THEIR cAUSE???!111122345
You are precisely the kind of insidious creep we want to avoid.
Who said women aren’t being oppressed? Who said that men are being oppressed? Who said I was a man?
Sorry if you’ve been hurt, but that is no excuse for sexism. To be clear: lumping all men into a group is sexism. Grouping all people by some factor that is beyond their control is prejudice. It’s really as simple as that. Again, I’m sorry if you’ve been hurt, but that’s no excuse for that response.
To repeat: the reality is that not all men back the ugliness that Trump and his supporters promote. To claim otherwise is to rob yourself of allies. It is self defeating.
Please look up why “not all men” is a silly point to make.
Because we all know the response to that is too many men? Right? But women voted against women, how do you fix that? How do you sit and blame all the men for your problems when it was also women who wanted these things to happen?
I’m sure explaining not all men to them will turn this whole thing around.
I’m sure pulling an Idiocracy will turn this whole thing around.
See how useful that is?
We have to stop the shift of men to the right and this can’t help
No, no, I’m sure being even MORE insufferable and obnoxious is the solution.
I understand the sentiment, but this is intrinsically self-defeating if at most one half of the female population participates while the other half if quickly drifting towards the trad-wife high birth rate shit.
It is just math.
Did you actually think half of the female pop wants to be a trad wife? Only 37% of young adult women voted for Trump for instance. 76% of 25-54 year old women work. 88% of women believe abortion should be legal. Trad wives are an internet meme that has single digit support among young women.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
Think about it long term though. If trad wives have lots of children and all other women don’t, the next generation will be over-represented by the children of trad wives. Over a long enough time scale I think trad wife like subcultures will take over.
Think about it in evolutionary terms. If a mutation shows up that dramatically lowers fertility rate it will be heavily selected against unless it somehow confers an even greater fitness advantage in other areas.
Here we’re dealing with cultural changes associated with the invention of birth control and a massive liberalization of society. These have caused fertility to plummet but don’t really confer much of a fitness advantage (most of the advantage is due to modern medicine which trad wives also have access to). Since culture is pretty strongly heritable (sometimes even more strongly than individual genes, which might only be passed down 50% of the time if only one parent has the gene) we could see a societal takeover by trad wives over the next few centuries.
You are assuming that the children of trad wives born into a culture that offers a far better deal choose on average to become tradwives. You are also ignoring how small a group it is and all the other larger groups are that also have big families. Lastly you are ignoring how short fads are and how long generations are.
If you start with 3% tradwives and grow 33% per generation you are going to be very disappointed in 60 years when its only 7% even more so if expected losses to other cultural options keep it at 4% or even extict.
I used the term “trad wife like” for a reason. Trad wives are a bit of a meme right now but they’re not the only group where women focus on household chores and raising lots of children. Amish and old order Mennonites, traditional Muslim families (my experience is with Somali families), Hasidic Jews, Mormons as well as lots of traditional Christian groups too.
“Far better deal” is debatable. Amish are pretty famous for offering their children the opportunity to leave and live a modern life among “the English” (their term for non-Amish). Very rarely do they actually follow through on it, as they have everything they need.
I volunteer at an after school homework club run by the local Somali community. I help Somali kids with their homework and have made friends with several people in their community. Their family structures are quite traditional and all of the kids have numerous siblings. They don’t avoid modern technology but their community is so close-knit that they strongly maintain their beliefs and practices.
We gave up a lot to have a culture that “offers a far better deal”: a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose, a connection between the work we do and greater meaning (unlike so many bullshit jobs, when you grow your own food it feels immensely satisfying), large families with close kinship bonds to form a support network, even the help of older siblings helping to raise younger children. Many modern parents struggle tremendously just to raise 1-2 children simply because they’re on their own, with no support network.
Amish, Mennonite, and Mormon women face horrible levels of abuse, including stunning levels of incest. So do trad wives. Why are you ignoring the intrinsic trauma that comes with being enslaved? Women are not immune to this. You can see videos of them hanging themselves from ceiling fans after being sold in marriages.
Many of these communities don’t believe spousal rape is real. Rape is torture, which is why it is used extensively in war. It’s also why victims of rape automatically develop the same brain/PTSD patterns as victims of war.
You are profoundly ignorant of women or even the human condition. Recommend the documentary trio Half the Sky and also the book The Body Keeps the Score.
These people can’t leave their cult communities because they literally lack the life knowledge to do so. That’s actually exactly why cults deprive their members of knowledge. They aren’t staying because they are happier, they stay because otherwise they will lose their family and community due to cult shunning and be alone in a strange world.
And further up, re: “trad wife takeover,” um it’s actually their fascist husbands taking over. Blame the men doing it, not their stupid enslaved wives.
You’re assuming children follow the ideology of their parents. I have yet to meet an irl leftist who wasn’t raised by conservatives.
How many children with Christian parents grow up Muslim? How about vice versa? How many children of vegan parents grow up to be meat eaters? How about vice versa? How many children of Chinese parents grow up to stop celebrating Chinese new year or stop eating Chinese food?
Children are never guaranteed to follow their parents’ beliefs and cultural practices but they’re far more likely to follow them than they are to choose any other belief or practice to follow. This phenomenon is also heavily reinforced by region. How many leftist children of conservative parents choose to stay in their hometown in some rural area deep in a red state?
Moving far from home to go live in a big city due to educational and ideological differences is extremely common. However, raising children in an expensive city without the support of the grandparents and other extended family is much more difficult. I think this reinforces the birth rate trends among conservatives, even for those who do not claim to follow the trad wife movement.
It’s probably uncommon to go from Christian to Muslim or vice versa, but I’ve seen many going from religious to atheist.
I don’t hear much about vegan children, so I can’t speak on that.
Celebrating Chinese New years? I think when it comes to culture specific celebrations, it feels inappropriate to partake in those of other cultures, especially when you don’t know much of them. But when you have some of your own where that doesn’t apply, then you take it, because a celebration of any kind of a celebration. An excuse for getting together and doing something special.
I think this shift you speak of is more likely when the world around you is visibly doing better than your immediate surroundings. Right now, I’m not convinced that’s the case anymore, so sticking to what you know and grew up with feels much safer, even if it’s still shitty.
Gen-X men got him elected. As a white man in his 40s, I’m disgusted. After moving out of the city, I just can’t converse with most of the white men my age. The majority of my friends are now younger than me or POC.
It’s my understanding that a lot of Gen-Z men backed Trump as well. Can’t say I understand the appeal he has to the younger crowd.
Can’t say I understand the appeal he has to the younger crowd
Perhaps some introspection is in order. If feminists can’t figure out how to coexist with others, without turning everything into a battle, then they’re ultimately going to prove to the world that they have no business at all being anywhere near power. Frankly, women have been given a great deal of autonomy in western civilization recently, and have set themselves to the task of burning everything down. It’s not at all a good look, and how the younger generation sees you should be a wake up call.
If feminists can’t figure out how to coexist with others, without turning everything into a battle, then they’re ultimately going to prove to the world that they have no business at all being anywhere near power.
If thats your logic, when are men going to apologize for WWI and WWII? How about an apology for the Holomodor? Are these the evidence you’re using to show that men deserve to be in power?
Frankly, women have been given a great deal of autonomy in western civilization recently, and have set themselves to the task of burning everything down.
Oh? Which part of men’s bodies are women given legal power to control?
BTW, I’m a dude, I’m just not deluded enough to think that my genitals make me smarter that people with other genitals.
Feminists are not the one aggressively turning men into this. It’s toxic masculinity types like Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, and Joe Rogan.
Keep doubling down. I’m sure you’ve almost got the formula right.
Look inward my dude. You have some really fucked up ideas about women. Women are just people like you or me and deserve full rights including to their body. If you can’t accept that you don’t see women as fully human and you are, to be technical, an asshole.
The scary feminists are turning men into douchebags not the notable douchebags with a platform spewing hate, sure buddy.
Autonomy is not “given.”
It is when you’re still so deep inside the system mentally that you require products to facilitate your lifestyle. If you want to know how to be free without relying upon society to grant you that privilege, you should look into this cool guy from Roman times named Jesus.
you should look into this cool guy from Roman times named Jesus
Look I never do this, but… 🤮
And seriously… if you’re trying to be a “good Christian witness”… this is not the way.
Not even really Christian, but he still provides a great example of what it actually means to live in this world. Too many people want freedom, but don’t want to give up the luxuries that others provide for them. Frankly a lot of Christians don’t get that part of the message either.
