• JasSmith@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    This is ideological illiteracy. Socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism. All communist states have been socialist states because no society has progressed far enough to reach communism.

    You claim me to be “ideologically illiterate,” then go on to agree with me that socialism isn’t communism. That doesn’t speak well of your reading comprehension or intentions.

    The implication was that it is worse in communist countries.

    I didn’t make any claims about corruption. My claims are with outcomes, which I maintain are worse under communism.

    Take China out of that data and it practically flatlines. It has not improved in capitalist countries, China is responsible for almost all of it.

    Child mortality has trended down over the last century in almost every capitalist nation, not just China. Even the really corrupt African nations.

    If that were fucking possible under capitalism it would ALREADY BE HAPPENING.

    No, and this is the central argumentative failure under this dogma. Maybe people just don’t want mass redistribution? Maybe what you want isn’t what everyone else wants? Is that really so hard to accept as a possible reality? The Frankfurt School accepted this in the 1930s under the premise that “people’s lives are just too good under capitalism to ever want to move to communism.”

    • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You claim me to be “ideologically illiterate,” then go on to agree with me that socialism isn’t communism. That doesn’t speak well of your reading comprehension or intentions.

      Two sides of the same coin. Socialists all understand that socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism.

      I didn’t make any claims about corruption. My claims are with outcomes, which I maintain are worse under communism.

      Prove it. I cited research that shows you are wrong, you’re simply ignoring the facts.

      Child mortality has trended down over the last century in almost every capitalist nation, not just China. Even the really corrupt African nations.

      Wow one data point! Incredible. Now do deaths from starvation, lack of clean water and curable disease. 20million die per year.

      No, and this is the central argumentative failure under this dogma. Maybe people just don’t want mass redistribution? Maybe what you want isn’t what everyone else wants? Is that really so hard to accept as a possible reality? The Frankfurt School accepted this in the 1930s under the premise that “people’s lives are just too good under capitalism to ever want to move to communism.”

      Holy shit your argument is “I don’t want these people to live so it’s ok”. Colonial brained monster.

      • JasSmith@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Two sides of the same coin. Socialists all understand that socialism is the transitionary stage between capitalism and communism.

        We continue to agree: they are not the same. Particularly democratic socialism.

        Prove it. I cited research that shows you are wrong, you’re simply ignoring the facts.

        The cited research relied on national reported statistics in its methodology. North Korea just isn’t a reliable source. Neither is China; which, by the way, is also classified as a socialist country. Further, the researchers normalised income, which radically altered the conclusion. Without doing that, the capitalist countries win by a country mile. You would have known that had you actually read the study you cited.

        To defend my premise, I would like like to cite all former and current communist countries, including:

        Korea, Democratic Peoples Rep. (North Korea)
        Armenia
        Azerbaijan
        China
        Georgia
        Kazakhstan
        Kyrgyzstan
        Laos, Peoples Democratic Republic
        Mongolia
        Nepal
        Tajikistan
        Tibet
        Uzbekistan
        Vietnam
        Armenia
        Azerbaijan
        China
        Georgia
        Kazakhstan
        Kyrgyzstan
        Laos, Peoples Democratic Republic
        Mongolia
        Nepal
        Russia
        Tajikistan
        Tibet
        Turkmenistan
        Uzbekistan
        Vietnam
        Europe
        Albania
        Belarus
        Bosnia & Herzegovina (Yugoslavia)
        Bulgaria
        Croatia (Yugoslavia)
        Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia)
        Estonia
        Finland
        Germany (German Democratic Republic)
        Greece
        Hungary
        Latvia
        Lithuania
        Macedonia, FYR (Yugoslavia)
        Moldova
        Montenegro (Yugoslavia)
        Poland
        Romania
        Serbia (Yugoslavia)
        Slovakia (Czechoslovakia)
        Slovenia (Yugoslavia)
        Spain
        Ukraine
        Angola
        Ethiopia
        Mozambique
        Colombia
        Cuba
        Nicaragua
        Peru

        Most of these countries are doing much better since eliminating communism. The data is irrefutable.

        Wow one data point! Incredible. Now do deaths from starvation, lack of clean water and curable disease. 20million die per year.

        I literally cited global hunger rates. I encourage you to read my comments above to refresh your memory.

        Global access to clean water has been trending up for more than a century.

        Child deaths from pneumonia.

        Diarrheal deaths in children.

        Disease burden from communicable, maternal, neonatal & nutritional diseases.

        I could do this all day, but you made the claim. Let’s see some evidence that capitalist nations do worse than communist nations.

        Holy shit your argument is “I don’t want these people to live so it’s ok”. Colonial brained monster.

        Once again, creating straw men. No one argued for killing anyone. Do you do his because your argument is weak? Does that normally work for you?