• Pretzel@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    I’m not a lawyer, but I vaguely remember hearing that Terms of Service can’t protect a company from everything. I seriously doubt a company could get away with that when it was brought to court.

        • TauZero
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          1 year ago

          Don’t worry, they got it covered:

          for any claim related to these Terms of Sale or our Products … you may invoke binding arbitration by filing a separate Demand for Arbitration. … © either party may bring a claim in small claims court in lieu of arbitration; … (i) claims must be brought in the parties’ individual capacity, and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative proceeding. You hereby agree that for any dispute or claim that is less than $10,000 USD, you waive any right to a trial (by judge or jury), you waive any right to participate as a member of a class in a class action or similar proceeding.

          • XTornado@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            If I am reading this correctly which probably I am not, 10k is very little for a class action so most wouldn’t be covered at all by this restriction, it seems like a way to not have lawyers costs for very small class actions, but big ones would be “allowed” That again… I am probably misreading it, I am not a lawyer.

            • TauZero
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              1 year ago

              You are right, you are misreading it 😎. The $10,000 is for your personal claims, not the total class action value. Moreover, class action is prohibited twice here. The first clause:

              claims must be brought in the parties’ individual capacity, and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative proceeding

              Has not dollar limit. The language here is extremely confusing because of the double repetition. I can’t even tell if the arbitration is “binding” or not. I’ll assume that it is, based on the legal principle “exception that proves the rule” combined with clause 13.2 c). Here’s my not-a-lawyer flowchart interpretation consistent with every clause:

              • if less than $10,000 in claims (99%+ of accounts), then:
                1. must file Notice of Dispute
                2. then if reject settlement offer, may file Demand for Arbitration OR file in small claims court
                3. BUT you “waive any right to a trial by judge or jury”, and a court is presided by a judge, so… no small claims court for you!
                  (Any actual lawyer feel free to correct me in case a small claims court trial doesn’t count as a trial by a judge)
              • if more than $10,000 in claims (someone who somehow bought hundreds of ubisoft games?), then:
                1. may file Notice of Dispute or skip it
                2. then may file Demand for Arbitration OR file in small claims court
                3. BUT small claims court limit is typically $5000-$10000, so… no small claims court for you!
                4. UNLESS you live in one of 8 states with a higher limit, and have a claim of exactly between $10000 and $15000
              • in NO CASE may you be part of class action

              Also, under clause 13.3 any legal action must be adjudicated in the courts of the State of California. I don’t know if that includes small claims courts, or if there is some legal tradition that small claims can always be filed in state of residence of the consumer. California has a $10k small claims limit, so if there is no such tradition, to me it appears there are NO situations where you can file any court case, big or small, consistent with these rules.

      • Pretzel@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Of course, but OP brought up that they couldn’t be sued. I was just pointing out that if someone was willing to test it, I bet they could come out on top.