I feel like that was more so her self insert, hermoinie, can be “on the right side of history”
This is my little headcannon theory and not a hill I even wanna fight on, so if there are blatant holes I’m interested I’m hearing but also keep in mind this is just something I “believe” because it amuses me.
Hermione is basically ridiculed and becomes a stereotypical “irrational activist” character during it. If she was trying to make Hermione the one in the right here she did everything she could to make her look like she was in the wrong.
Yeah I know and agree. It is her self insert or who she “identified” with the most, so I hand wave the plot holes of my theory away with the same literary finesse Jk Rowling has exhibited in recent decade or two. Like I said, not a hill I’m even willing to fight on lol.
The reality is she is an awful racist person, but I like to make both things true in my headcannon.
Idk doesn’t everyone have loose silly things they kinda choose to believe in for fun?
I don’t know if Hermione is strictly a self insert any more than her other characters are, we just sort of assume that because she’s the girl. Oftentimes we see Rowling pop up in the framing devices and not the characters themselves. We are always drawn to some conclusion the plot wants us to. Often what Hermione does is a lampshading technique. She brings up the issues around moral issues but we are lead to see her concerns and advocacy as invalid as the plot makes them inconvenient or proven to be incorrect. It’s the actions speak louder senario. What the characters individually say is not wholly important because from an authorial standpoint some of them are intended to be misguided and Hermione is framed as good-hearted but ultimately misguided.
Hermione’s sense of moral objection is treated more often as a flaw, an annoyance to her peers and unneeded or even counter to the needs of by the people she is advocating for. She is more closely aligned to a caracature of how JKR veiws advocates of minority rights then a reflection of her own advocacy. That every other character tends to just ignore Hermione isn’t veiwed as a tragic instance. It’s played for comedy.
Where am I putting my head in the sand? I don’t disagree with anyone’s remarks at all, fully agree, and see nothing to criticize even. I ALSO amuse myself with this little story.
(The rest isn’t really at you and more I am on a roll now)
I DONT actually care ABOUT my headcannon. Shit dude was I not clear it isnt an opinion I actually hold? I guess I should have disclaimed with all the “plot holes” I am aware don’t make this fit well too?
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Oh gosh this is now just a ramble I’m sorry I don’t expect anyone to read this) ××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
So here they are… (cuz I was trying to be succinct in my OP and fight the urge to ramble and over explain, here I am giving in fully. )
Every single aspect of the house elves is treated like a joke, haha look at this muggle who doesn’t understand and making a big deal of having a species completely and utterly subservient to wizards and witches. They NEED it to live happy lives, pretending it is genetic trait they all have and not idk centuries of being enslaved. How do they even reproduce?? Do they get conjugal visits? Are they set up to breed much like how people do with cattle, horses, purebred pets? Do female pregnant house elves get maternity leave and how does that work someone would please ask JK Rowling about this, I’m sure there is some system in place that looks absolutely nothing like slavery did /s
It is only “bad” for doby and he had a family that abused him. And he knew their plotting to kill a kid that had been a beacon of hope or awe
Hermoine is full blast white savior complex about it and never once LISTENS to what the elves say or ask them what changes they would like to have. Even in the bs fantasy of a species born to serve, there should be things they would still like to have. She isn’t even GOOD at it. Which is fine for a kid, just pointing out another way Rowling made hermoine a total joke.
Rowling also gives it the most ridiculous name that is clearly meant to ridicule hermoine even more…
by giving it a name to have her club or whatever be able to be called SPEW for short. SPEW
And she doesn’t help a single elf. Harry does and he is also the only one to treat them as individuals.
IRRC Dumbledore does do something in some way maybe just reassure her the elves are treated more like employees at hogwarts but she doesn’t feel reassured at all and still keeps at it.
ULTIMATELY what I truly feel and believe about this little story and lore from the books is that Rowling is worse than she is given credit for.
She not only seems to have this at best subconscious belief that some people are suited for slavery
She also shows a similar subconscious belief or bias that progressive people speaking against the status quo are naive, silly, idealists going through a phase and that when they understand how the world actually works they will agree with the status quo. The entire vibe I get is like the characters are giving hermoine head pats and eye rolls and calling her a silly girl.
That said dude it was like, early y2k we were still patting ourselves on the back for Will and Grace. The internet didn’t show you so many people’s random opinions. We did not have the type of discussions we have now, because now we have SO many points of view we can learn aboit. Now we can be aware of the more nuanced problems of systematic racism, the patriarchy, ableism, and more. Basically if she weren’t so awful now I don’t think we would be so critical of HER personally and instead critical of the artwork itself but disconnected as a product of the time and not a product of the artist. Jk Rowling makes the former impossible and the latter almost mandatory where she keeps saying more shit that suddenly new aspects of the series has different context with this new light.
Thanks. Sorry, I am in a mood to ramble tonight with poor self editing.
Even if that were the case the salves should been shown that freedom was better ( they like it because of Stockholm syndrome or something). By the end they should have been freed. Instead we’re just shown that you should be nice to your slaves (Harry and Kreacher).
Instead she made it like hermoine is wrong and the elves really do love being completely subservient to another species to the point of abuse and literally having no choice but to stay unless you’re given CLOTHING. It’s the most wild fucked up obvious lowest rung of society that desperately needs advocates and just… kinda stops there. It would be one thing if they just existed and we all later were like wait rhats messed up, like with the goblins.
But no she brought attention to it throughout the book made it a whole side plot and absolutely nothing was ever accomplished. I think even later books sort of call back to this in a humorous way.
But I still like to imagine my headcannon being it. It makes me laugh more than being just a plain bigot does. It’s funnier if she is writing something she thinks a moral good character would do as her self insert and just still fails so miserably.
Do they? We see, what, two examples: the first, one who is overjoyed when freed; the other, a villainous character who echoes the morals of the slave owners. Where’s the evidence they like being slaves, outside of slave owners saying they do?
Winky becomes an inconsolable drunk after being freed.
The hogwarts elves cease cleaning the gryffindor common room because they are insulted by Hermione’s leaving knitted caps and sweaters around for them, and generally avoid and shame dobby and winky.
There are many examples of House Elves in the books who treat essentially the single one who was freed and happy about it as an abnormality. Look at how Dobby is reacted to by every other house elf. Hermione’s advocacy that they have autonomy is ultimately treated as being something only an extreme minority of their population would want and her continued efforts treated as comedy.
Effectively house elves are narrativly speaking a subservient slave species whom treating poorly is narrativly punished… but emancipation is not desired by the whole and they feel fulfilled as long as their masters treat them well. The profiting from their labor is framed as mutually beneficial.
Hm. I’ll take your word for it. I had mostly checked out by halfway through the series; once Potter started acting like a petulant teen (which was probably the most realistic writing of the series, but also the most infuriatingly annoying) I stopped caring. I finished the series through sheer momentum but I think I skimmed too much, because I must have missed most of this.
They’re a nonhuman species and one probably shouldn’t assign human views and norms to them.
But then I’ve always preferred scifi and fantasy where the various other species aren’t just humans with weird ears but are actually very different than humans. Stuff like Three Worlds Collide or the Crystal Society trilogy for examples that are free online.
There’s an entire section of the books about how slavery is okay because the slaves like it actually
I feel like that was more so her self insert, hermoinie, can be “on the right side of history”
This is my little headcannon theory and not a hill I even wanna fight on, so if there are blatant holes I’m interested I’m hearing but also keep in mind this is just something I “believe” because it amuses me.
Hermione is basically ridiculed and becomes a stereotypical “irrational activist” character during it. If she was trying to make Hermione the one in the right here she did everything she could to make her look like she was in the wrong.
Yeah I know and agree. It is her self insert or who she “identified” with the most, so I hand wave the plot holes of my theory away with the same literary finesse Jk Rowling has exhibited in recent decade or two. Like I said, not a hill I’m even willing to fight on lol.
The reality is she is an awful racist person, but I like to make both things true in my headcannon. Idk doesn’t everyone have loose silly things they kinda choose to believe in for fun?
I don’t know if Hermione is strictly a self insert any more than her other characters are, we just sort of assume that because she’s the girl. Oftentimes we see Rowling pop up in the framing devices and not the characters themselves. We are always drawn to some conclusion the plot wants us to. Often what Hermione does is a lampshading technique. She brings up the issues around moral issues but we are lead to see her concerns and advocacy as invalid as the plot makes them inconvenient or proven to be incorrect. It’s the actions speak louder senario. What the characters individually say is not wholly important because from an authorial standpoint some of them are intended to be misguided and Hermione is framed as good-hearted but ultimately misguided.
Hermione’s sense of moral objection is treated more often as a flaw, an annoyance to her peers and unneeded or even counter to the needs of by the people she is advocating for. She is more closely aligned to a caracature of how JKR veiws advocates of minority rights then a reflection of her own advocacy. That every other character tends to just ignore Hermione isn’t veiwed as a tragic instance. It’s played for comedy.
Yeah head canons make sense in fandom, but you’re just putting your head in the sand and then saying “lol I don’t care”
Where am I putting my head in the sand? I don’t disagree with anyone’s remarks at all, fully agree, and see nothing to criticize even. I ALSO amuse myself with this little story.
(The rest isn’t really at you and more I am on a roll now) I DONT actually care ABOUT my headcannon. Shit dude was I not clear it isnt an opinion I actually hold? I guess I should have disclaimed with all the “plot holes” I am aware don’t make this fit well too?
××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××× Oh gosh this is now just a ramble I’m sorry I don’t expect anyone to read this) ××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××
So here they are… (cuz I was trying to be succinct in my OP and fight the urge to ramble and over explain, here I am giving in fully. )
Every single aspect of the house elves is treated like a joke, haha look at this muggle who doesn’t understand and making a big deal of having a species completely and utterly subservient to wizards and witches. They NEED it to live happy lives, pretending it is genetic trait they all have and not idk centuries of being enslaved. How do they even reproduce?? Do they get conjugal visits? Are they set up to breed much like how people do with cattle, horses, purebred pets? Do female pregnant house elves get maternity leave and how does that work someone would please ask JK Rowling about this, I’m sure there is some system in place that looks absolutely nothing like slavery did /s
It is only “bad” for doby and he had a family that abused him. And he knew their plotting to kill a kid that had been a beacon of hope or awe
Hermoine is full blast white savior complex about it and never once LISTENS to what the elves say or ask them what changes they would like to have. Even in the bs fantasy of a species born to serve, there should be things they would still like to have. She isn’t even GOOD at it. Which is fine for a kid, just pointing out another way Rowling made hermoine a total joke.
Rowling also gives it the most ridiculous name that is clearly meant to ridicule hermoine even more… by giving it a name to have her club or whatever be able to be called SPEW for short. SPEW
And she doesn’t help a single elf. Harry does and he is also the only one to treat them as individuals.
IRRC Dumbledore does do something in some way maybe just reassure her the elves are treated more like employees at hogwarts but she doesn’t feel reassured at all and still keeps at it.
ULTIMATELY what I truly feel and believe about this little story and lore from the books is that Rowling is worse than she is given credit for. She not only seems to have this at best subconscious belief that some people are suited for slavery
She also shows a similar subconscious belief or bias that progressive people speaking against the status quo are naive, silly, idealists going through a phase and that when they understand how the world actually works they will agree with the status quo. The entire vibe I get is like the characters are giving hermoine head pats and eye rolls and calling her a silly girl.
That said dude it was like, early y2k we were still patting ourselves on the back for Will and Grace. The internet didn’t show you so many people’s random opinions. We did not have the type of discussions we have now, because now we have SO many points of view we can learn aboit. Now we can be aware of the more nuanced problems of systematic racism, the patriarchy, ableism, and more. Basically if she weren’t so awful now I don’t think we would be so critical of HER personally and instead critical of the artwork itself but disconnected as a product of the time and not a product of the artist. Jk Rowling makes the former impossible and the latter almost mandatory where she keeps saying more shit that suddenly new aspects of the series has different context with this new light.
Thanks. Sorry, I am in a mood to ramble tonight with poor self editing.
Even if that were the case the salves should been shown that freedom was better ( they like it because of Stockholm syndrome or something). By the end they should have been freed. Instead we’re just shown that you should be nice to your slaves (Harry and Kreacher).
Yeah
Instead she made it like hermoine is wrong and the elves really do love being completely subservient to another species to the point of abuse and literally having no choice but to stay unless you’re given CLOTHING. It’s the most wild fucked up obvious lowest rung of society that desperately needs advocates and just… kinda stops there. It would be one thing if they just existed and we all later were like wait rhats messed up, like with the goblins. But no she brought attention to it throughout the book made it a whole side plot and absolutely nothing was ever accomplished. I think even later books sort of call back to this in a humorous way.
But I still like to imagine my headcannon being it. It makes me laugh more than being just a plain bigot does. It’s funnier if she is writing something she thinks a moral good character would do as her self insert and just still fails so miserably.
What? Which book? In the original septilogy?
House elves
Do they? We see, what, two examples: the first, one who is overjoyed when freed; the other, a villainous character who echoes the morals of the slave owners. Where’s the evidence they like being slaves, outside of slave owners saying they do?
Winky becomes an inconsolable drunk after being freed.
The hogwarts elves cease cleaning the gryffindor common room because they are insulted by Hermione’s leaving knitted caps and sweaters around for them, and generally avoid and shame dobby and winky.
To be fair, things like this happened with actual slaves all the time. Abuse and manipulation can make you comfortable with truly horrible conditions.
Ah. Stockholm syndrome. But, probably not what she meant, that’s true.
There are many examples of House Elves in the books who treat essentially the single one who was freed and happy about it as an abnormality. Look at how Dobby is reacted to by every other house elf. Hermione’s advocacy that they have autonomy is ultimately treated as being something only an extreme minority of their population would want and her continued efforts treated as comedy.
Effectively house elves are narrativly speaking a subservient slave species whom treating poorly is narrativly punished… but emancipation is not desired by the whole and they feel fulfilled as long as their masters treat them well. The profiting from their labor is framed as mutually beneficial.
Hm. I’ll take your word for it. I had mostly checked out by halfway through the series; once Potter started acting like a petulant teen (which was probably the most realistic writing of the series, but also the most infuriatingly annoying) I stopped caring. I finished the series through sheer momentum but I think I skimmed too much, because I must have missed most of this.
I concede the debate.
They’re a nonhuman species and one probably shouldn’t assign human views and norms to them.
But then I’ve always preferred scifi and fantasy where the various other species aren’t just humans with weird ears but are actually very different than humans. Stuff like Three Worlds Collide or the Crystal Society trilogy for examples that are free online.