They have a need to justify their warped worldview. They believe we’re evil authoritarians, and they are taught to hate authority (unless it aligns with their wants), and so they will harass and argue with us in bad faith until they are inevitably banned, all so they can say “See? They silence those they disagree with!” They have a martyr complex and think harassing people online by talking out of their ass is like standing up to tyranny. It helps them deal with the dissonance of believing they’re free and righteous while supporting the most warmongering regime in human history.
Not really, no. I don’t seek out evidence to justify my worldview. In fact, any time I come across something that reaffirms what I believe, my first instinct is to verify by checking multiple sources and waiting for confirmation that it’s not just a lie. We don’t think getting banned on a liberal or fascist forum makes us martyrs or justifies our worldview. Some people do it to harass fascists, but most MLs who get shutdown on other forums honestly were just trying to explain their views and were punished for it. The only times I’ve ever seen people banned in ML circles were for repeated instances of bad faith argument and harassment.
You may get downvoted to hell, but as long as you aren’t being a thoughtless asshole, you’re not likely to get banned, lol. Even if you are, you can appeal and will probably be listened to.
I’m not saying you’re guilty of brigading or being an asshole to other sides or whatever, but all sides have assholes. Especially when there’s effectively only 2 parties in America, there’s gonna be assholes on both sides because being left or right or centrist doesn’t mean you’re any less of an asshole.
CicadaSpectre made a claim about a specific group (Lemmy liberals* that come here in bad faith), and you claimed that this applies to every single person on the planet
*By liberals, this includes Democrats and Republicans in the US – we mean liberals like “liberal democracy” not like Trump uses it
You’re assuming that just because one thing is bad, all similar things must be equally bad.
To use a far less crude analogy: If you were stabbed with a knife in a back alley, that would be pretty horrible, but if you were to be operated on by a doctor, they would still cut you open, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing like the first one.
God I’m so sick and tired of these comments. You people sound the same as the Trumpanzees.
Look, I don’t like Biden either, but unfortunately he’s our best shot at keeping Trump out of office. As much as we all want it, the country isn’t ready for a 3rd party president yet.
It might be helpful to mention that when we say “liberals” here, we mean liberal as in “liberal democracy,” not the weird US definition where Trump raging at liberals isn’t a self-own.
(Speaking of the US, I can’t help but agree that without a real left presence since the government crushes any movement like the Black Panthers, the country is going to steer hard right at some point.)
Both are actively driving us further towards WW3, climate catastrophe, genocide, and absurd inflation. Biden has been a bigger enemy to working people than Trump has been in several ways, and of course Trump worse than Biden in other ways too. They both represent different factions of the ruling class who may have disagreements with each other, but are unified in oppressing the global proletariat. To pretend like Biden is a serious safeguard to rising American fascism ignores the ways Biden and Democrats have not only actively encouraged and partnered with the most extreme elements of the Republican Party but also engage in fascist politics of their own. Biden’s function is not to stop Trump. His function is to stop revolution. They are twin heads of a single snake.
Working Americans are hopeless unless they can dispel with the fiction that the Democrats ever gave a shit about them.
See this is what I mean. I agree with every single thing you said, yet you act like we’re different people. It’s annoying and I’m fucking tired of it. Y’all sound like MAGAts with your “liberal” and “democrat” bullshit. Come up with a new insult. You’re only driving away people that you depend on for this movement to gain some traction.
We are different people. You think we need to vote for Biden to save the world from Trump as if it’s going to make a significant difference in our trajectory. You’ve admitted that you are invested in this electoral farce while also admitting that both Biden and Trump are our enemies. You’ve admitted that you agree Biden is pushing us further towards a global catastrophe yet you’ve stressed the importance of voting for him? That’s a confused position and you need to interrogate that further.
I understand viewing voting as another battleground that we can’t abandon, and if that’s your opinion I agree with you there. But that does not indicate that we corrale and gaslight working people who are actively being harmed by one fascist to vote for the other fascist. In addition, the majority of participants here think it’s delusional to dedicate the majority of our efforts towards electoralism. It’s also masochistic to be emotionally invested in this charade of voting for people who actively and enthusiastically betray us.
I’m really not trying to be rude here, so I’m sorry for the bluntness of my text. If you consider yourself a socialist and not a liberal, well, that’s perplexing to me because you seem invested in liberalism. If you are a liberal, then why are you here on a communist forum trying to argue with us? If you’re curious about communist thought then you could choose to learn and observe. If you wanna engage in discussion or even a debate, then at least attempt to engage in good faith (you’re the one here calling us names). Even if you don’t agree with us, you’ll hopefully better understand where we’re coming from.
Okay, how do liberals keep wandering in here? Did someone open a window or something?
They haven’t defederated us yet, so we still show up on their all page.
Some of them are doing it just to get banned by us, which I don’t really understand…
They have a need to justify their warped worldview. They believe we’re evil authoritarians, and they are taught to hate authority (unless it aligns with their wants), and so they will harass and argue with us in bad faith until they are inevitably banned, all so they can say “See? They silence those they disagree with!” They have a martyr complex and think harassing people online by talking out of their ass is like standing up to tyranny. It helps them deal with the dissonance of believing they’re free and righteous while supporting the most warmongering regime in human history.
deleted by creator
Not really, no. I don’t seek out evidence to justify my worldview. In fact, any time I come across something that reaffirms what I believe, my first instinct is to verify by checking multiple sources and waiting for confirmation that it’s not just a lie. We don’t think getting banned on a liberal or fascist forum makes us martyrs or justifies our worldview. Some people do it to harass fascists, but most MLs who get shutdown on other forums honestly were just trying to explain their views and were punished for it. The only times I’ve ever seen people banned in ML circles were for repeated instances of bad faith argument and harassment.
You may get downvoted to hell, but as long as you aren’t being a thoughtless asshole, you’re not likely to get banned, lol. Even if you are, you can appeal and will probably be listened to.
I’m not saying you’re guilty of brigading or being an asshole to other sides or whatever, but all sides have assholes. Especially when there’s effectively only 2 parties in America, there’s gonna be assholes on both sides because being left or right or centrist doesn’t mean you’re any less of an asshole.
There is one party in America, the rich people’s party, and they play both sides of the culture war.
Preach.
“I crap on the floor instead of the toilet, so everyone else must do it too!”
I don’t understand your point?
CicadaSpectre made a claim about a specific group (Lemmy liberals* that come here in bad faith), and you claimed that this applies to every single person on the planet
*By liberals, this includes Democrats and Republicans in the US – we mean liberals like “liberal democracy” not like Trump uses it
Oh, thanks for the clarification. I was saying that all sides have people that do things in bad faith, not that all people do it.
I didn’t know that most people were referring to liberal democracy, thought everyone here just hated the left for some reason lol
I know, no objection there, just trying to explain.
We consider ourselves the left. We think both parties are really the same where it counts:
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1098814
You’re assuming that just because one thing is bad, all similar things must be equally bad.
To use a far less crude analogy: If you were stabbed with a knife in a back alley, that would be pretty horrible, but if you were to be operated on by a doctor, they would still cut you open, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing like the first one.
They seem to view getting banned with pride, like it’s a rite of passage or something. So childish…
God I’m so sick and tired of these comments. You people sound the same as the Trumpanzees.
Look, I don’t like Biden either, but unfortunately he’s our best shot at keeping Trump out of office. As much as we all want it, the country isn’t ready for a 3rd party president yet.
Can’t we all just get along?
It might be helpful to mention that when we say “liberals” here, we mean liberal as in “liberal democracy,” not the weird US definition where Trump raging at liberals isn’t a self-own.
(Speaking of the US, I can’t help but agree that without a real left presence since the government crushes any movement like the Black Panthers, the country is going to steer hard right at some point.)
Both are actively driving us further towards WW3, climate catastrophe, genocide, and absurd inflation. Biden has been a bigger enemy to working people than Trump has been in several ways, and of course Trump worse than Biden in other ways too. They both represent different factions of the ruling class who may have disagreements with each other, but are unified in oppressing the global proletariat. To pretend like Biden is a serious safeguard to rising American fascism ignores the ways Biden and Democrats have not only actively encouraged and partnered with the most extreme elements of the Republican Party but also engage in fascist politics of their own. Biden’s function is not to stop Trump. His function is to stop revolution. They are twin heads of a single snake.
Working Americans are hopeless unless they can dispel with the fiction that the Democrats ever gave a shit about them.
See this is what I mean. I agree with every single thing you said, yet you act like we’re different people. It’s annoying and I’m fucking tired of it. Y’all sound like MAGAts with your “liberal” and “democrat” bullshit. Come up with a new insult. You’re only driving away people that you depend on for this movement to gain some traction.
We are different people. You think we need to vote for Biden to save the world from Trump as if it’s going to make a significant difference in our trajectory. You’ve admitted that you are invested in this electoral farce while also admitting that both Biden and Trump are our enemies. You’ve admitted that you agree Biden is pushing us further towards a global catastrophe yet you’ve stressed the importance of voting for him? That’s a confused position and you need to interrogate that further.
I understand viewing voting as another battleground that we can’t abandon, and if that’s your opinion I agree with you there. But that does not indicate that we corrale and gaslight working people who are actively being harmed by one fascist to vote for the other fascist. In addition, the majority of participants here think it’s delusional to dedicate the majority of our efforts towards electoralism. It’s also masochistic to be emotionally invested in this charade of voting for people who actively and enthusiastically betray us.
I’m really not trying to be rude here, so I’m sorry for the bluntness of my text. If you consider yourself a socialist and not a liberal, well, that’s perplexing to me because you seem invested in liberalism. If you are a liberal, then why are you here on a communist forum trying to argue with us? If you’re curious about communist thought then you could choose to learn and observe. If you wanna engage in discussion or even a debate, then at least attempt to engage in good faith (you’re the one here calling us names). Even if you don’t agree with us, you’ll hopefully better understand where we’re coming from.