It’s totally fine if you believe that life starts at conception.
The thing that actually baffles me are the states that passed anti-abortion laws, but struggle to provide adequate health care, especially for those who are not financially stable.
I found this article, “States with more abortion restrictions have higher maternal and infant mortality”, but feel free to correct or educate me on the topic.
Edit: removed “this article” appearing twice and tried to fix preview
Don’t forget…
-
Say that only people born in this country count as Americans
-
Refuse to pass legislation supporting maternity / paternity leave, Pre-K childcare, paid school lunches, or aid for first-time home buyers
-
Make the act of getting pregnant incredibly dangerous
-
Freak the fuck out when the youngest generation of adults starts having fewer children
-
It makes more sense when you realize it’s not about protecting life. It’s about controlling women and punishing them for having sex.
Exactly. What’s mortality got when everyone’s going to heaven? Death, where is thy sting?
If you want an actual “answer”, some christians believe the following:
- Unborn children are sent from God to populate his earth.
- They are at birth only burdened with “original sin”, which Jesus lived and died for.
- They believe a child not baptized, and not on the Jesus train still have the stain of original sin. So they believe that soul is fucked, as it never had the chance to get to heaven. That’s why they believe abortion is especially heinous.
Next:
- Many Christians believe in prosperity doctrine, wherein when you see someone doing well, that’s because they are aligned with God in some way or form, and their success is god’s success.
- If you see someone doing poorly, it is because they have not accepted Jesus.
Healthcare:
-
Many believe that illness and failure are reflections of sin at worst, or simply god’s tests at Best.
-
As before, lack of money for healthcare is attributed to a lack of alignment with God, as if he intended for you to get that healthcare, you would.
So the conclusion of this delusional mindset is that children must be given the chance at baptism to get their soul on the way to heaven.
Adults need to align with God in their lifestyle and choices, else bad things will happen and it’s all their fault. So when you see an adult failing, it’s not like they didn’t have a chance to get right with God!
Because this is Lemmy, be clear, I do not hold this position but was raised in Christianity.
Edit there are people that actually, truly believe a fetus killed by abortion is murder of the darkest sort: a murder that robs the soul’s chance at heaven. That not only are you “killing”, but you are killing in a very, very dark way.
Of those who actually believe this, I can’t imagine any compromise being reached, ever. How do you compromise with "willfully casting a soul into eternal darkness?
Many fake Christians only approach this topic from a control standpoint: they want to dominate others through fear. But the real believers are on another planet.
I believe abortion is killing, but it only becomes murder by definition if abortion is outlawed. The literal definition is “the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.”
The fetus won’t have cerebral cortex till +12 weeks; no consciousness. So it wouldn’t be much different than killing a plant or bacteria. It’s debated when it becomes a human.
Yes, I justify murder as it will likely reduce the suffering. Thus, I am a monster in Christians eyes.
It’s actually incredibly straightforward. The cruelty is the point
Two reasons this falls apart:
- Abortion is healthcare. There are conditions that can’t be helped by anything else.
- They don’t give a shit about mortality rates because it’s someone else doing all the dying (until it’s not).
Can’t believe the Eugenics Party would do this.
They just want to control women.
It’s got nothing to do with morality.
Those of us who aren’t far-right chuds in the USA have a saying about right-wing policy that may explain the phenomenon: “The cruelty is the point.”
More generously, as someone who knew a large number of religious rural folk growing up, what is important to them is to avoid the prospect of someone ‘committing murder’; whether society offers the born child a slow death is of no consequence, as long as no one person or group pulls the metaphorical trigger.
If I wanted to be even more generous, I would say that they imagine a support network of nongovernment religious organizations and families to indoctrinate the struggling parents and their child… but honestly, I don’t think most of them even think that far ahead.
That’s even absolute bullshit. They give “lip service” to murder is bad at best. They don’t care if the “wrong” people murder each other.
It always pisses me off when people try claiming they want to do that last part.
Not a single thing is stopping them from setting up support networks that, while I disagree with their politics, could legitimately do good by giving new families resources. But that’s not actually what they want, it’s never been what they want. Because if it was, they’d have done it already.
It’s as simple as the cruelty is the point. Someone doesn’t live their life exactly how they think it should be lived, they believe that person should be punished.
Those support organizations do exist to a certain extent. It’s often an even bigger problem. It’s “Women’s Health Centers”, faith-based “insurance” companies, and gay conversion camps. Catholic hospitals have issues, but they’re the least problematic part of this.
Yeah there’s a church near me that has a banner displayed with a picture of an infant saying, “don’t abort me. Help is available. Talk to someone inside.”
No phone number or email to contact, just a “come inside.”
Allegedly (coming from a neighbor) if you go inside they try to sell you sketchy insurance and not much else.
That and controlling women is the point as well.
Exactly. They enjoy killing people, plain and simple. They’re fascists, after all. It’s what they do.
Yeah it’s this, it’s all about protecting the in crowd and punishing the rest
I hate how modern journalism uses phrases to distance us from the harsh reality, like “mortality rates increased” instead of “people killed by government policy”, “officer involved shooting” instead on “murdered by police”, “abortion rights” instead of “human rights”.
It looks bad for the advertisers to use strong words or take a stance.
Still, the owners of those private prisons are going to make a killing when all those unwanted kids grow up into unwanted, traumatised adults.
The only people who buy that lie are the useful idiots they got marching in the streets. The decision makers themselves know very well what they’re doing. Don’t mistake cruelty for ineptitude.
This is surprisingly dense with info https://youtu.be/yts2F44RqFw
That was a good watch, I can see binary view being at least part of the problem. I did think that religion might be part of the reason for some laws, but somehow didn’t realize how big. And the video had many other good points worth of the watch.
Making money > Everything else. Once we concede that America is hyper capitalist most other problems can be explained.
Not this one. Banning abortion doesn’t gain anyone money, so it’s just pandering to right wing Christians.
Banning abortion doesn’t gain anyone money
It’s hugely lucrative for religious organizations and their affiliated political donor recipients. Also, creates a rich vein of for-profit adoption centers - particularly religiously affiliated ones - to effectively sell infants to older childless adults in the congregation.
A bunch of those “You don’t have to choose adoption, there is another way!” billboards are paid for by for-profit adoption groups and their intake organization affiliates.
Which is a base they need to win the elections. Which they want so they can give out tax breaks… to the rich. And that’s the circle of life.
What pseudoscientific ideology has to day that life doesn’t beging at conception? Is left denying science now?
Even if it did start at conception, the real argument is about bodily autonomy. No one can be forced to donate any part of their body to keep someone else alive. Nobody can take your blood without your permission, why should women have their bodies taken without theirs?
This is fun. With that logic you’ll be naming a tumour or parasitic infection.
Life began billions of years ago.
This phrasing is meant to hide a religious argument as a scientific one. The question they’re really asking is “When does God insert a soul into a body?”
It’s just a poorly written description of the argument. If I understand the argument correctly there’s a difference between a blastocyst (collection of cells not yet developed) and a fetus.
