It’s like saying Islamic state culture is legitimate.
There’s some damn nice architecture and geometry coming out of Islam. Would you tear down a nice mosaic just because they remind you of the worst aspects of the greater culture?
Would you be opposed to getting rid of Nazis imagery too?
Does whole-grain bread count as Nazi imagery? Yes, there’s legitimately a single valuable thing the Nazis ever did, and that was propagating whole-grain bread. Germany wouldn’t eat the bread it does today if there had been a loud group of people insistent on associating it with the Nazis, calling people who like whole-grain bread Nazis, the usual stuff the vernacular calls cancel culture.
I’d say if you want to say “fuck the Russians” then don’t just destroy, but also steal and plunder. Say, Zemfira is in exile right now, she’s up for grabs. Also, Tatar.
There’s some damn nice architecture and geometry coming out of Islam. Would you tear down a nice mosaic just because they remind you of the worst aspects of the greater culture?
Well, I wouldn’t dynamite a 1500 year old Buddha statue because I found it offensive, but an Islamic state sure did.
So I take it you wouldn’t tear down that mosaic. Which is exactly my point. Put it in a museum if you don’t want to have it out in the open because the memory is too fresh.
I know you’re being glib and all, but you’re not doing the russians any favours with coddling their imperialist thinking.
They need to figure out what their culture stands for and how they relate to it. They are not even close, even alleged russian “liberals” are raging nationalists outside of public articles in English or western conferences.
You seem to be a connisour of russian culture. You should look into their use of champagne bottles, it’s very creative. I think you would appreciate it.
Check out Dalny, Kazan! Ask the locals and say you want a real world experience! Enjoy!
I spent a year there around the turn of the century. It was a completely different country, with similar problems and hope (despite fatalism) as Ukraine and a fledgling, but existing, civil society, before Putin nipped it in the bud. I can’t forget that country. (which happens to include Zemfira’s first album).
Yes, among that is also people being, for lack of better term, confused about why Ukraine would institute quotas for Ukrainian-language songs on the radio. But the difference between that and sanity is so much smaller than between that and what’s going down now that I cannot declare all Russian culture to be fundamentally fucked. Moscow’s attitude and governance is what’s fundamentally fucked.
Maybe you should ask the defenders on the frontlines how they dare speak the language of the enemy. Accuse them of war crimes based on nothing but that. Go ahead, I’m waiting.
I see the champagne bottle element of russian culture made you take a back step to your petty sarcasm?
Your attitude is what enables Putin specifically and near universal support for genocidal imperialism among russians.
Even before putin, the russians killed 50 thousand Chechen civilians when they put down their independence movement. A comparable figure would be ~7 million russian civilian casualties. And you talk about Zemifra albums. The reality is that you value the lives of russians more than the lives of the people they kill (even that may not be your intent).
And of course you blame solely putin (“putin nipped it in the bud”) for the decline of russian civil society. Even though the russians re-elected putin in 2004 (in an election generally considered free and fair) after he shut down all independent mass media. Russians are responsible for the collapse of civil society. Don’t infantalize them, they are not children.
Keed in mind, I lived in russia for a decade, coincidentally around the time you were there. And I did actually enjoy the first Zemfira album when it came out. But unlike you I was cognizant that russians were showing a lack of humanity in their attitude towards Chechens and that even liberal minded were show a worrying level of support for an authoritarian KGB goon.
No where did I say russian (or Bengali or Farsi or any language) cannot be used in private. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine, Ukraine has its own heroes and great people of culture.
But unlike you I was cognizant that russians were showing a lack of humanity in their attitude towards Chechens and that even liberal minded were show a worrying level of support for an authoritarian KGB goon.
I saw the fear in people’s eyes when they were thinking of conscription. During peace time. Back then noone knew that Putin had orchestrated the apartment building bombings. Back then Putin was a president who wasn’t a drunk. You know the Russian fatalism, they were imagining eternal 90s before Putin and, in the beginning, he actually delivered on getting the economy in shape. In short: The Russian people were bribed, and their hopes betrayed. Now they’re back deep in their fatalism, created by 500 years of Tsars.
Back in the days, I called Putin a Tsar. He still has the same “I’m the smartest person in the room and am now explaining very basic stuff to you” attitude he had back then. Russians didn’t have an eye for spotting such things, how can you tell a terrible politician from another type of terrible politician if you’ve never ever seen an at least half-way decent one. And btw during the first presidential elections he won “against everyone” was still an option, and it got a ton of votes.
Yes, the Russian people, collectively, fucked up. That doesn’t mean that everything about their culture led them there. Americans, too, fuck up constantly, and it’s not BBQ that’s the reason. Germany really fucked up and it wasn’t about whole-grain bread. Noone is cancelling Kant over Hitler and nations we invaded back then now listen to Rammstein.
What I’m advocating against is blanket judgement. That would be the enemy’s mode of thinking winning. You’re better off telling Russian liberals why their shit isn’t sufficient, until they learn to see for themselves.
No where did I say russian (or Bengali or Farsi or any language) cannot be used in private. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine, Ukraine has its own heroes and great people of culture.
Soyou suppose that the defenders on the front should defend the front in private? Like, not talk to soldiers that are not family members? Have you any idea how large a percentage of the Ukrainian army operates in Russian?
Yes, Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine. Everyone is learning it in school. It is the language used in politics. Ukraine also has 17 recognised minority languages, Russian is one of them. Ukrainians are European, they’re capable of being multilingual.
You’re just making up more excuses and trying to justify their behaviour (albeit in what seems to be good faith). 1.2 millions russian men have directly taken part in the fullscale invasion of Ukraine and 75%+ were not conscripted. And you ignore this.
I will admit what you position as blanket judgment is not a good thing. But it’s also not a good thing to infantilize a group of people and treat them like children. The russian “liberals” need to be treated based on their actions and it’s up to them to make the right calls.
The issue isn’t about putin acting like a Tsar. The issue is about a large majority enabling and supporting a tsar. Ignoring this is not doing anyone any favours.
I won’t get into the discussion on russian (or any other) language in Ukraine. I am talking fighting against russian genocidal imperialism. This is a completely different topic (if you want to actually look at it from a real perspective). And yet you make a point to ignore it.
If you have a country/polity/group of people that keep making exclusively bad decisions, at every single historical point possible. It is reasonable to have a sober outlook while not “essentializaing” them. Let their choices and actions reflect who they are. It’s all up to them.
1.2 millions russian men have directly taken part in the fullscale invasion of Ukraine and 75%+ were not conscripted. And you ignore this.
I’m not ignoring it I’m asking what it has to do with Korobeiniki.
I won’t get into the discussion on russian (or any other) language in Ukraine.
And yet you did. That is the reason why I’m pushing back so hard. Why you care if Vadja from Kharkiv, in Russian AF Kharkiv, hums Korobeiniki while reminiscing about sniping Moskals.
I am talking fighting against russian genocidal imperialism.
Of which, so far, Russian-speaking Ukrainians were actually the primary victims because that’s where the Russians attacked. And now you want to tell them what language to speak. Many are already switching over, not all of them speak passable Ukrainian, and I think it’s fair to say that it’s ok to prioritise fighting against Russia over learning Ukrainian, right now. It will be up to them how to deal with the thing in the long term, not up to some random guy from Lviv or wherever.
Russian civil society and imperial attitude is fucked, yes. Does the same apply to Mongolia? If the Mongols changed, why not the Russians? Will they stop singing Korobeiniki when they do? Pretty much every single Russian who’s not actively Z hates Russia right now, even if they can’t admit it to themselves. You can take that as an opportunity to educate, or you can increase the amount of prejudice in the world.
There’s some damn nice architecture and geometry coming out of Islam. Would you tear down a nice mosaic just because they remind you of the worst aspects of the greater culture?
Does whole-grain bread count as Nazi imagery? Yes, there’s legitimately a single valuable thing the Nazis ever did, and that was propagating whole-grain bread. Germany wouldn’t eat the bread it does today if there had been a loud group of people insistent on associating it with the Nazis, calling people who like whole-grain bread Nazis, the usual stuff the vernacular calls cancel culture.
I’d say if you want to say “fuck the Russians” then don’t just destroy, but also steal and plunder. Say, Zemfira is in exile right now, she’s up for grabs. Also, Tatar.
Well, I wouldn’t dynamite a 1500 year old Buddha statue because I found it offensive, but an Islamic state sure did.
So I take it you wouldn’t tear down that mosaic. Which is exactly my point. Put it in a museum if you don’t want to have it out in the open because the memory is too fresh.
I know you’re being glib and all, but you’re not doing the russians any favours with coddling their imperialist thinking.
They need to figure out what their culture stands for and how they relate to it. They are not even close, even alleged russian “liberals” are raging nationalists outside of public articles in English or western conferences.
By all means, don’t steal the likes of Navalny. Not sure about the details behind Zemfira I didn’t look into it deeply, she just came to mind.
All I’m really saying is “be selective”, otherwise you’ll end up raging against Pelmeni. Which are Sibirian, btw.
You seem to be a connisour of russian culture. You should look into their use of champagne bottles, it’s very creative. I think you would appreciate it.
Check out Dalny, Kazan! Ask the locals and say you want a real world experience! Enjoy!
I spent a year there around the turn of the century. It was a completely different country, with similar problems and hope (despite fatalism) as Ukraine and a fledgling, but existing, civil society, before Putin nipped it in the bud. I can’t forget that country. (which happens to include Zemfira’s first album).
Yes, among that is also people being, for lack of better term, confused about why Ukraine would institute quotas for Ukrainian-language songs on the radio. But the difference between that and sanity is so much smaller than between that and what’s going down now that I cannot declare all Russian culture to be fundamentally fucked. Moscow’s attitude and governance is what’s fundamentally fucked.
Maybe you should ask the defenders on the frontlines how they dare speak the language of the enemy. Accuse them of war crimes based on nothing but that. Go ahead, I’m waiting.
I see the champagne bottle element of russian culture made you take a back step to your petty sarcasm?
Your attitude is what enables Putin specifically and near universal support for genocidal imperialism among russians.
Even before putin, the russians killed 50 thousand Chechen civilians when they put down their independence movement. A comparable figure would be ~7 million russian civilian casualties. And you talk about Zemifra albums. The reality is that you value the lives of russians more than the lives of the people they kill (even that may not be your intent).
And of course you blame solely putin (“putin nipped it in the bud”) for the decline of russian civil society. Even though the russians re-elected putin in 2004 (in an election generally considered free and fair) after he shut down all independent mass media. Russians are responsible for the collapse of civil society. Don’t infantalize them, they are not children.
Keed in mind, I lived in russia for a decade, coincidentally around the time you were there. And I did actually enjoy the first Zemfira album when it came out. But unlike you I was cognizant that russians were showing a lack of humanity in their attitude towards Chechens and that even liberal minded were show a worrying level of support for an authoritarian KGB goon.
No where did I say russian (or Bengali or Farsi or any language) cannot be used in private. Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine, Ukraine has its own heroes and great people of culture.
Don’t get petty with war crimes you little shit.
I saw the fear in people’s eyes when they were thinking of conscription. During peace time. Back then noone knew that Putin had orchestrated the apartment building bombings. Back then Putin was a president who wasn’t a drunk. You know the Russian fatalism, they were imagining eternal 90s before Putin and, in the beginning, he actually delivered on getting the economy in shape. In short: The Russian people were bribed, and their hopes betrayed. Now they’re back deep in their fatalism, created by 500 years of Tsars.
Back in the days, I called Putin a Tsar. He still has the same “I’m the smartest person in the room and am now explaining very basic stuff to you” attitude he had back then. Russians didn’t have an eye for spotting such things, how can you tell a terrible politician from another type of terrible politician if you’ve never ever seen an at least half-way decent one. And btw during the first presidential elections he won “against everyone” was still an option, and it got a ton of votes.
Yes, the Russian people, collectively, fucked up. That doesn’t mean that everything about their culture led them there. Americans, too, fuck up constantly, and it’s not BBQ that’s the reason. Germany really fucked up and it wasn’t about whole-grain bread. Noone is cancelling Kant over Hitler and nations we invaded back then now listen to Rammstein.
What I’m advocating against is blanket judgement. That would be the enemy’s mode of thinking winning. You’re better off telling Russian liberals why their shit isn’t sufficient, until they learn to see for themselves.
Soyou suppose that the defenders on the front should defend the front in private? Like, not talk to soldiers that are not family members? Have you any idea how large a percentage of the Ukrainian army operates in Russian?
Yes, Ukrainian is the official language of Ukraine. Everyone is learning it in school. It is the language used in politics. Ukraine also has 17 recognised minority languages, Russian is one of them. Ukrainians are European, they’re capable of being multilingual.
You’re just making up more excuses and trying to justify their behaviour (albeit in what seems to be good faith). 1.2 millions russian men have directly taken part in the fullscale invasion of Ukraine and 75%+ were not conscripted. And you ignore this.
I will admit what you position as blanket judgment is not a good thing. But it’s also not a good thing to infantilize a group of people and treat them like children. The russian “liberals” need to be treated based on their actions and it’s up to them to make the right calls.
The issue isn’t about putin acting like a Tsar. The issue is about a large majority enabling and supporting a tsar. Ignoring this is not doing anyone any favours.
I won’t get into the discussion on russian (or any other) language in Ukraine. I am talking fighting against russian genocidal imperialism. This is a completely different topic (if you want to actually look at it from a real perspective). And yet you make a point to ignore it.
If you have a country/polity/group of people that keep making exclusively bad decisions, at every single historical point possible. It is reasonable to have a sober outlook while not “essentializaing” them. Let their choices and actions reflect who they are. It’s all up to them.
I’m not ignoring it I’m asking what it has to do with Korobeiniki.
And yet you did. That is the reason why I’m pushing back so hard. Why you care if Vadja from Kharkiv, in Russian AF Kharkiv, hums Korobeiniki while reminiscing about sniping Moskals.
Of which, so far, Russian-speaking Ukrainians were actually the primary victims because that’s where the Russians attacked. And now you want to tell them what language to speak. Many are already switching over, not all of them speak passable Ukrainian, and I think it’s fair to say that it’s ok to prioritise fighting against Russia over learning Ukrainian, right now. It will be up to them how to deal with the thing in the long term, not up to some random guy from Lviv or wherever.
Russian civil society and imperial attitude is fucked, yes. Does the same apply to Mongolia? If the Mongols changed, why not the Russians? Will they stop singing Korobeiniki when they do? Pretty much every single Russian who’s not actively Z hates Russia right now, even if they can’t admit it to themselves. You can take that as an opportunity to educate, or you can increase the amount of prejudice in the world.