The purported names and addresses of grand jurors who indicted Donald Trump were posted online by Trump supporters on a fringe website known for violent rhetoric. This prompted security concerns for the jurors and district attorney’s office. A research group found the jurors’ information being spread across other sites along with false claims about their political views. The indictment itself does not include such private details. After Trump referred to “riggers” online, supporters appeared to use that term in place of a racial slur in discussing the jurors. Both the sheriff’s office handling Trump’s surrender and the FBI declined to comment on grand jury security matters. The posting of jurors’ private information has led to death threats against them from some Trump supporters online.
Jfc. These people are fucking monsters.
They’re not people.
They are people.
Calling them monsters and dehumanizing them separates “them” from “us” and prevents us feom trying to understand how a real person, with intellect, feelings, a family, a social life etc. can get to the point where they do such things. If we don’t collectively at least try and understand it, we have zero chance of preventing it from happening again.
That being said, I’m not at all making excuses for their actions, which I find seriously violent, disgusting and worrying.
Fully agree. They are people engaging in toxic and possibly criminal behaviour, and should face the consequences.
But not seeing ‘the other side’ as people will only further the extremely detrimental polarisation of society, with groups shifting apart like tectonic plates and making it extremely hard to find common ground again.
Thought experiment for you then. How do you resolve the issue that arises when a person or group of persons live just down the street from you who claim that the core belief of their very being is that people “like you” shouldn’t exist, or should, at the very least, go away, preferably across a large body of water.
Would you truly believe that all the people in this group, or even the majority of them, would be willing to listen to your arguments or protests simply because you recognize the conditions under which their beliefs came to be and you would like to rather, in the present, address those conditions?
I agree that there are problematic systemic conditions that give rise to far right ideologies like white supremacy and it’s close extension, fascism. We definitely need to address them. But these conditions are not just the result of modern sociological paradigms, they have specific historical origins and are passed down through culture and tradition, and that is not something you can defeat through just argument and social ostracism, you sometimes just need to force the monsters out.
We can try to do all the other preventative measures first and we should, but some peoples’ ideaologies are so deeply engrained into their identities, there is no convincing.
For some, there’s no talking to them, they don’t engage in dialogue genuinely, they twist Democratic forums, insisting on being heard while advocating for policies that ultimately aim to marginalize and silence others, constantly playing the victim while insisting the strength of their ideas on the sole basis of their opinion being fact.
A simple saying sums up my feelings on the far right and their fascist dreams. It was popularized during Trump’s Muslim ban:
So, I’m not a specialist in any field relevant to the things we are discussing. I have opinions, which arise from a lot of factors most of which create a confirmation bias that reinforces my opinions. This is why I’m grateful when people who disagree chose to engage in conversation to explain me how I was mistaken, so thank you for that.
Situational stuff I think is relevant I’m a white privileged person (parents paid for my education, never got hungry one day in my life), I’m perceived as male in public space and most of my social circles (the unsafe ones). So I’ve had it easier than most my whole life, and I have no first hand experience of being part of a group that has to live through daily violence from a racist culture. Your post gives me the impression that you have that experience, and that really sucks - this should not happen to anyone.
The point I was trying to express I think calling them monsters is a way of dehumanizing them, of distancing ourselves from them. Doing that, we become blind to how they became who they are today : at least some of them were probably once people we could have known and not hated. We also become blind to the possibility that one or several of our friends, family, neighbors, colleagues… which we don’t hate right now could go down the same paths.
I’m also convinced that their actions must be punished, and that we need to try and prevent them from harming people. This can be done legally, but sometimes the law is not enough.
The points you made - I agree with almost everything. I agree with almost everything you wrote. I seems to me that the only disagreement we have is about calling them monsters or not.
I really with I had a good answer to this question, because I’ve been struggling with it for some time. Best I could come up with was :
I feel like this is well summed up by the sign you posted : we need to be there and to take action to protect targeted groups and people.
I completely agree with you. I even believe it’s too late for some people - we will never be able to bring them back to more a more tolerant/empathetic view of the world.
I think the first thing to be done is to prevent hateful actions/speeches by making them socially and legally inacceptable (and sometimes violence is needed to achieve that) because the most important thing is to protect the people who endure the hate. And at the same time but on a different scale we need to adress systemic conditions and problematic culture and tradition.
That’s the only point where I disagree with you : I’d say we need to force the people who act like monsters out, as I’ve tried to explain in the beginnning of my comment.
Completely agree.
I’m so grateful people like you exist and stand up. I don’t know you personnally, but seeing people like you and the ones in the picture helped me get out of my privileged apathy and start trying to make things better.
Not really an answer to your question, but your reply reminded me of the Paradox of Tolerance.
They’re fucking animals. Period.