Dailymotion
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I was in an incident that led to people complaining about me here and by extension in Ask Lemmy, one which I explained my perspective on elsewhere. Then, when sharing my perspective, I was asked by a certain Blaze to share it in YPTB, only for those in charge there to give what amounted to a signal of disregard for it and to take it elsewhere. Going by their own words, I then shared it in !fediverselore@lemmy.ca as the only close alternative available, which, as a part of their own “rules subtext”, sometimes allows this, and the person, if not all of those who help with YPTB, proceeded to drop by anyways and scold me because “YTPB has specific posting guidelines in the sidebar”.

The implication here is false, at least by my definition of the word “false”, and he even alluded to that after it began to be discussed elaborately, albeit before using an appeal to the masses (story of my life) and say “most people seem to understand”, which ignores consensus of me and the aforementioned Blaze (as much as the “the truth we all wanted to speak” remark ignores not everyone had that issue). Notice how I responded with “I can spot rules broken by the other person’s thread more easily than I can spot rules broken by mine” and got only thumbs down for it and no responses, yet when I actually dissected the rules piece by piece in front of him to point out that any rule I supposedly broke wasn’t there, which even the person who recommended I make the discussion in the first place (the aforementioned Blaze) agreed was a “fair point to be honest”, the mod then delved into the concept of “unspoken rules” as an excuse for himself and said he didn’t want to “rules-lawyer”, which not only disproves what he said about “specific posting guidelines” being “in the sidebar” that supposedly explained what I did wrong, but proved a point I commonly mention about people in different places including here always being uncritical and unwilling to see things for themselves and just taking peoples’ word for things (and about that, to respond to Cypher’s last reply, intellectual =/= intelligent). A part of that is it also suggests, by extension, that the quantity of thumbs down you garner is unreliable as consistently meaning anything, unless the rule is actually to apply gladiator logic and say a thumbs down signals mercy, as indicated by the very Roman-esque culture around here. I guess all this time, I was being praised and didn’t realize it?

This idea of “unspoken rules” and “reading between the lines” seems to be a common theme here because everyone seems to think that concept is valid, and they think that whether you’re akin to an outcast is defined by the norms you follow. This makes me curious to ask… hypothetically, if I get all PTB gradings from everyone because I couldn’t read the “unspoken rules” or anticipate mod discretion, what if I were to go to the places I have authority over and ban everyone who says or has said anything positive or supportive about Luigi Mangione or what he did? Would I be able to accomplish this without being called a PTB? After all, that is how this all started, and again, that would be an “unspoken rule” on its own that can be chalked up to mod discretion, now wouldn’t it? Those are the terms.

I await your choice.

  • Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
    12·
    3 days ago

    Ok I’m sort of following along here.

    1. The initial messages here were complaints about me. Technically their feelings were hurt.
    2. I initially went away to talk about my perspective. I wasn’t dissatisfied about that. It was Blaze, who is like the fediverse peacekeeper at this point, who told me to share it here.

    Ok got it, so you were the accused PTB in the original post here.

    1. Upon sharing it here, I was silenced even though it didn’t break any written rules. Which Blaze agreed with later on. I was told in the response to share it elsewhere. My feelings were not hurt, as shown by the fact I complied.

    In what way were you silenced? Nobody banned you from here or stopped you participating in the original discussion according to the modlog. So no PTB there. In fact you were encouraged to simply post your response in the original discussion thread and db0 even offered to sticky it there so that it would get sufficient visibility.

    But you wanted a completely separate post to complain that nobody took your side in the original discussion, and you didn’t get your own way about it. But the best place for your response was in the original post, along with all the context.

    1. When I complied, the mod of !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com who told me to go elsewhere with it came to me and made a fuss. That’s where the rules were spoken about. It was that mod who told me he would rather I talk about it here. Again, my feelings were not hurt during that, as shown by the fact I complied about that too.

    The so-called fuss, which was just responding to your questions & comments:

    1. Here we are.

    Yes, here we are. So let me sum up.

    1. You were posted about in YPTB for banning people for supporting Luigi Mangione. The community rendered its judgment and most folks thought you were being a PTB.
    2. You then wrote a confusing blog post about how you were right to ban those people, and wanted to post it in a second YPTB post. This second post did not meet our community rules and was removed. Those rules have now been repeatedly explained to you and clarified. You were offered a “right of reply” in the original post with a stickied comment. It was suggested to you that if you want to make the post, do it somewhere else.
    3. You came back here to complain about db0 removing your (second) post, as db0 suggested you should do if you feel it was a PTB move. Unfortunately you then confused the hell out of everyone, me included, by writing about it in an incredibly confusing and disjointed way.

    So the only topic of THIS post per point 3 should be about whether is was justified to have your second “right of reply” post removed according to our sidebar rules. Your assertion seems to be that db0 was power tripping by doing that.

    I hope this clarifies for everyone. And I think the removal of your second post was completely warranted by the community rules because it was about you justifying yourself, more than anything else.

    • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.eeOPEnglish
      17·
      3 days ago

      In what way were you silenced? Nobody banned you from here or stopped you participating in the original discussion according to the modlog. So no PTB there. In fact you were encouraged to simply post your response in the original discussion thread and db0 even offered to sticky it there so that it would get sufficient visibility.

      The original discussion was done. So, in effect, it was dismissive to say “go to that dead discussion and make your point”. The whole point of a perspective is to allow both sides to be side-by-side. So I chose the other option the other mod suggested, to go to !fediverselore@lemmy.ca with it. He did suggest that as one of his suggestions.

      But you wanted a completely separate post to complain that nobody took your side in the original discussion, and you didn’t get your own way about it. But the best place for your response was in the original post, along with all the context.

      It wasn’t about “getting my own way”, it was about mentioning things the other people seemed they could not square together. You make it sound personal. Again, even Blaze mentioned my route seemed to make more sense.

      The so-called fuss, which was just responding to your questions & comments:

      It was still kind of fussy for someone who brought the idea up. Not hostile, but questioning.

      Here are some corrections to your summary.

      You then wrote a confusing blog post about how you were right to ban those people, and wanted to post it in a second YPTB post.

      There was a lot more factored in that led me to saying it like that, but yeah. I made that “blog” to give to the other mods, which they said was fair and understandable. I gave it to Blaze because he took part in the first discussion. That’s when he told me to share it. So even though one could say I “wanted to post” it, it was also second-hand.

      Those rules have now been repeatedly explained to you and clarified.

      …if you could say that about an unspoken rule. Do I object? Technically, no, it’s your community. But it’s not like it wouldn’t have confused me, going by the rules. The other mod even had to explain it to Blaze.

      Unfortunately you then confused the hell out of everyone, me included, by writing about it in an incredibly confusing and disjointed way.

      I tried my best. In terms of typos and grammar, it’s fine and, I would thus say, calculatable. I did paraphrase it a bit too.

      Your assertion seems to be that db0 was power tripping by doing that.

      Not really just that. It seemed rather roundabout and double-standard-ish how this all turned out despite the fact I complied to everyone to the letter.

      it was about you justifying yourself, more than anything else.

      How do you think someone explaining their perspective works, especially when it was brought to light based on others’ advice? Of course someone explaining their perspective is going to justify themselves. And then, each time, I planned to leave it up to discussion and give everyone free will, albeit with the caveat that the ruling would determine my next course of action (practicing discretion in my own communities if the ruling placed emphasis on the !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com’s mods’ right to practice discretion, enforcing unspoken rules in my communities even in the face of people complaining here if the emphasis was on me not reading into unspoken rules, etc.).

      • Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comMEnglish
        11·
        3 days ago

        There was no “unspoken rule” involved here. It’s literally the first community rule in the sidebar. If you’re just gonna make stuff up about being the victim of “unspoken rules” then this discussion might as well end here tbh. I’ll note that nobody else has misunderstood that rule.

        If you didn’t feel willing or able to adequately express your position in the comments on the original post then that’s a shame, but them’s the breaks. Being a mod is a tough gig. You’ve now had the chance to have your say across multiple communities. And the offer is still open to pin your response blog entry to the original post.

        • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.eeOPEnglish
          16·
          3 days ago

          Rule one says “post only about bans or other sanctions from mod(s)”.

          I am a mod.

          My discussion was about a ban.

          Therefore, my post was “about bans or other sanctions from mod(s)”.

          Unless there is something lost in translation, it’s deceptive to say I’m making anything up.

          Whether or not nobody else has misunderstood it doesn’t mean it’s not capable of being misunderstood if there are parts of it that are more implied than written.

          As for taking up a position in the replies of that thread, I was going by two peoples’ advice that did not rule out another thread. Take it up with them. If you truly still want me to go to that thread and state my position there, I will, once again, comply, wondering if I’m going to end up proving myself right and/or for this to be just another disdained step in this roundabout game you and the other mod have going.

          • Unruffled [he/him]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
            9·
            3 days ago

            That seems to me like a wilful misinterpretation. And we have clarified what it means to you multiple times now, if you were somehow unable to get the gist of it from reading other posts in the community. I think there’s plenty of context here now for people to make an assessment of whether db0 was power tripping in removing your post, so I’ll leave it at that.

            • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
              6·
              3 days ago

              @shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee has poor writing and reading comprehension. I am not sure why he is trying to mod.

              I have never had this much hard time understanding somebody on fedi esp after they had opportunity to clarify their position. I can’t tell if OP is doing this on purpose as this is an effective dilatory tactic.

              • Call me Lenny/Leni@lemm.eeOPEnglish
                12·
                3 days ago

                English is not my family’s first language, and I am, in a way, neurodivergent. Nevertheless, I communicate with the full rules of English in mind. No typos, no grammatical mistakes, nothing which would be jibberish. The sentences are long, so what? They still work. I have made them as simple as possible while acknowledging the complexity of the situation. I provide citations/links to split the load on what would otherwise be more burden for listeners. I have seen people before communicate as I do, and I understand them. I have seen a lot of people understand me as well. What you see is the best that it could possibly be given the circumstances, and even then, it shouldn’t be too hard to understand, as long as it can all be gathered, using the proper reading rules (just as there are rules on what makes a valid message, there are rules on how to internalize it). And yet none of this has a bearing on moderation worthiness.

                Of note, there is also a bit of skepticism that comes into play, because I have seen many people claim to not understand something because it means they don’t have to address that something someone says demonstrates they were wrong about something. I give the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn’t mean I’m not raising an eyebrow at the idea that, even when I ask “what don’t you understand”, nobody answers except with thumbs down. My mindset is negotiation and literalism, and for some reason, everyone else’s is to appeal to norms and psychology.