American here and I agree. Our government is a disaster right now so it’s better to focus on something actionable, like defeating Putin.
Ha! Imagine western nations listening to their citizens instead of their rulers.
Every country has to wrestle with their own form of oligarchy. There is always a subgroup of power hungry individuals that want to be ruling the kingdom.
Am US citizen living in the UK. Can confirm.
Am UK citizen living in US. Halp.
Happy to send you branstons pickle or Cadbury or something to ease your anxiety, though.
Idk why you think me of all people is gonna help you lol. I’m not trading places. No take backsies! Find a Farage supporter and ask them!
I mean yeah, makes sense. Russia is a direct threat to us all. Fuck the US if they think their egg prices are more important than European security and not having dictators have their ways.
They’re right too. The US has the luxury of turning a blind eye. The UK and Europe does not.
As they always do. It’s easy to build your “great” empire if all your wars and enemies are far away.
I think the UK can use this as an opportunity to improve relations with the EU, or to at least get a trade partner in Ukraine and to take a chunk of Russian assets. You get to be a good guy, and get rich by confiscating Putin’s coffers.
Seriously, send in troops, and maybe the navy if Turkey permits. Do what American’t.
Ask Turkey if they want to join in again for some Crimean War II? We killed a bunch of Russians before, why not again.
Half of our military bases are occupied by the Americans and we need your permission to do anything.
With a little luck the orange shitler will withdraw troops from Europe (yeah, no, I don’t dare to dream)
The simple reality is that it is not possible to maintain good relations with the US. Donald Trump is an idiot and a fascist whose agenda is driven by his whims as much as anything else. Starmer could bend over backwards to appease His Orange Majesty on every issue and Trump would still fuck the UK just because.
Am UK citizen, can confirm.
British values on display here, it’s not even marginal (48% for Ukraine vs 20% for Trump’s America).
It’s not often I’m proud of my country these days, but this is one of those rare moments.
I’m worried about the 32% abstaining / having no opinion, though.
There’s always some percentage of people who are ignorant of global issues and want to stay out of things… You’d think they were Farage voters but actually they usually don’t vote
Agreed. And hopefully our man Kier can stop cosplaying long enough to follow through on more military support.
I can’t believe we’re betraying Ukraine for no reason.
Oh wait… Actually I can believe it, i knew it was going to happen, and I voted against it.
It’s not for no reason, it’s to make Putin happier, maybe extort a bunch of mineral rights out of Ukraine. See, plenty of reason…
Sure, you’re right about that. I should have said no good reason.
As an EU citizen, we want good relations with USA, It’s 100% Trump and Musk who are ruining it.
They are literally insane, and USA needs to remove them. Unless they do, I guess we can’t be friends anymore.Gonna be honest, i haven’t agreed with that in 20 years, on account that the US can and will fuck over any ally it has if that has the slightest marginal gain for them. Any time the wind blows a different way, the US will throw all their allies under the bus. They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They’ve spied on the EU, they applied tariffs on the EU, they have threatened the EU with invasion after we helped them in their fruitless war in the middle east and had to deal with the migrant crises that resulted from it basically alone ? Now we have to deal with meddling in democratic elections? Never again, i say. We go at it alone, we trade, but that’s it.
They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it’s absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country’s ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we’d prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.
Removing them isn’t enough. Over 77 million people saw his previous term, looked at him now, and said “Yep! I want more of that!” And the media being complicit doesn’t help, either.
I absolutely agree, American democracy seriously needs to be reformed, as it is it is at best a dysfunctional democracy. And I think the evidence should be very clear on that now.
it’s up to whoever comes after trump to mend bridges with europe, it’s a waste of diplomatic resources maintaining relations with trumps america
Yes, but it can’t wait 4 years, because in 4 years Trump may have transformed USA government to a totalitarian regime.
Yeah, a LOT of Americans are treating this as business as usual, and it most certainly is not usual. Just because bad leadership has blown over in the past doesn’t mean this is the same thing.
People are not panicking anywhere near the level they should because we need to take care of this NOW. Like now, now. I can’t believe it ever got this far to begin with, but you are 100% right in saying that 4 years is far too long, and by then, it will be too late.
Half of the voters voted for Trump, so no thanks, I don’t want to have good relations with the US. I want to isolate them as much as possible.
Half of the people who voted*
Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).
It makes little difference to point out, but it’s good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn’t vote.
Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we’ll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin’s leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he’s got something to compensate for.
- The third of the people who didn’t vote had Trump previous to realize what he’d do and still said “Meh, either’s fine with me.” They’re complicit.
And 2. I get so fucking sick and tired of the “Dems are corporate shills” when the left can’t be faffed to show up at voting. I don’t mean the 4 year presidential votes. I mean the yearly all the way to the local shit. You want to know how we got Trump? Because the ultra-right made it a point to get in bed with the republicans and beat down doors to tell people to vote to secure the supreme court, to secure state positions, to secure fucking school board positions.
I have never met someone who had interest in Republicans who didn’t think they paid attention to the news. It may be Fox and Infowars but they paid some attention. If I had a nickle for every individual who was interested in left wing ideals but told me “I don’t know. I don’t like politics” I’d have enough to afford a plane ticket out of this fucking country.
You are right, the problem is very much a widespread attitude in USA.
They need to modernize their democracy, and they need to modernize their interpretation and regulation of what free speech is.
The 2 main reasons USA is as fucked up as it is now, is that the 2 party system undermines democracy, and way too much misinformation is allowed.
You can’t build democracy on lies.I really really hope Americans will wake up soon, and realize this.
I’m an American immigrant in Germany, and I’ve come to realize that most Americans are very naive about government. The US has been very successful in the short time it’s been around as a country, and I don’t think most Americans really realize that it won’t always be like that. At the same time, the education system has been gradually but thoroughly gutted.
I hope we can wake up, but I worry we might need to see for ourselves before we can actually learn. I just hope the rest of the world doesn’t indulge us so long that we take everyone else with us.
Absolutely USA as a country has been a huge success, and I think you are right, that people think that proves the model is good.
But there are many other factors that have helped USA become a success. A huge population with a unified language is one, massive agricultural potential is another. Lot’s of natural resources, and oil to kick-start industrialization.
It will be hard to elevate public education much without social reforms. AFAIK USA spend more on public education than many European countries, but results are worse, maybe in part because of poverty.
It’s way harder for Children that live in poverty to pay attention to school to the same degree that better off children can. That’s been a well known fact for many decades, and USA is doing absolutely diddly about it.I realized that my comment kind of sounds like I’m calling Americans dumb or uneducated generally, but I was thinking specifically about civics, history, and economics classes and I never mentioned that. Those courses are either missing from the curriculum or heavily biased to the point that I think it’s natural for people to have a poor understanding of fascism.
My parents both had masters degrees, and I grew up in a house where “communist” was a slur and “anarchist” was a synonym for chaotic. They weren’t stupid or uneducated, but they had been significantly propagandized. My dad fully thinks that leftists are fascist. Hell, I learned through high school that the US had never lost a war. My history classes never got past 1945, with the exceptions of the moon landing and the fall of the Berlin Wall.
heavily biased to the point that I think it’s natural for people to have a poor understanding of fascism.
There’s absolutely a tendency to gloss over things in American teachings in general history included.
So yes I agree, that could very well be part of the problem.I learned through high school that the US had never lost a war.
Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan.
So I guess your point was easily mostly proven.
You forgot about apathy. Even with a healthier plurality of political parties, the big thing is the majority of potential voters don’t bother. Some because of being lazy, some because it is unreasonably hard for them to get time off of work/contend with suppression.
This administration also highlights that the president matters too much. You can’t have even two parties interest honored when a singular man gets his way so much.
hard for them to get time off of work/contend with suppression.
Part of having a working democracy, is that it’s easy to vote. That means it’s close to where you live, and that it can be done quickly. That you are automatically registered to vote is a given. Also that people in prisons can vote is a minimum requirement for a functioning democracy.
USA fails on so many counts, creating obstructions instead of facilitating voting, that many Americans don’t even know what a good democracy looks and feels like.
There will always be some that are prevented or don’t care, but that’s not normally a big problem for good democracies.
If the election is non controversial, it’s not as important, and if it is controversial, more people participate. Most functioning democracies have about 80% voter participation AFAIK. Here we usually in the high 80’s.
Europeans are still clinging to the delusion that Trump is an aberration.
He kinda is though. There aren’t many presidents that run on a platform of gutting literally everything that can be gutted.
I don’t think anyone has understood this, so let’s see :
Trump is continuing longstanding foreign policy.
Only 1/3 of eligible voters voted for Trump. That’s what makes it even worse. 1/3 didn’t even fucking vote.
As an American, yeah that’s the right choice.
It also needs to be said that you probably can’t remain on good terms with the US, given the current regime and their “negotiation tactics”.
We can only hope that in four years you let us earn your trust back
as an american we want good government but it’s the billionaire oligarchs who are ruining it
And misinformation. That’s how they get and hold power. Like what happened here in Ohio with the gerrymandering.
Only because the people allow it.
I know nobody can change that alone, but USA need to friggin get some graasroot movements going to get real democracy, and elect politicians that don’t prioritize only the 1%.
The 2 party system simply doesn’t work.The 2-party system is political inbreeding, and Trump is a Hapsburg.
Very fitting analogy. 👍
It available to anyone who does exactly are they are told .
Musk and Trump don’t change that.
Even if you are right, there’s a huge difference between what Trump is asking, and what normal presidents ask of you to be friends.
Being friends is supposed to be a 2 way relationship, but with Trump it’s not.17hr account throwing around shit.
I wouldn’t say it’s just more important, I’d say it’s a moral imperative to support Ukraine’s fight for it’s sovereign land over keeping buddy-buddy with a government running rampant with corruption and Russian puppetry
Not to mention that once Russia is done with Ukraine they’re not going to stop. Defending Ukraine is defending Europe.
Exactly. If anyone thinks Russia will stop at Ukraine, they’re a fool
So education will be reformed and we’ll be force to learn Russian and vote for one party/president only?
Uh, can anybody stop currents news from auto generating bullshit on a daily basis?
Wow, when you straw man, you straw man hard.
Sincerely speaking, I almost preferred the times when covid was the main topic compared to what comes out of news’ mouth today
Agreed. I would rather the UK have fewer allies of a higher moral calibre than play sycophant to a fascist cabal of degenerates.
A heart breaking romance.
“Hey US, I think we should take a break. It’s not me, it’s you… I know you’ve been cheating on me with Putin”
Coming soon to a theater near you.
Still a better love story than…
Actually, no, it’s not.
As a Canadian you can’t trust anything coming out of the Musk /Trump White House. Us in Canada no longer consider them friends.
They’re threatening daily to take Canada by whatever means necessary. That’s not an ally, that’s a threat. Canada needs to protect itself, and the British people are quite right to back Ukraine. Trump is working with Putin to hand Ukraine to Russia. Russia will not stop its ambitions there and it is a threat to all of Europe.
Yesterday Trump threatened to pull US troops out of Europe if the EU did not agree to his and Putin’s plan for Ukraine. It’s a very clear threat: give Ukraine to Russia or we give you to Russia. Of course the USA in its current state would not defend Europe anyway. To me it looks like the plan is for Trump to seize Canada, Greenland, Panama, etc., while Putin grabs as much of Europe as he can.
Under these conditions what is NATO? Trump is deliberately destroying it.
So the UK, Canada and Europe need to stand firm against the alliance of the USA, Russia and those European countries that have gone over to fascism. The very existence of our countries is at stake.
And watch out for the far right at home, in the UK, Canada and Europe. Their loyalties do not lie with their countries, and they’re being bankrolled and supported by powerful people internationally.
Under these conditions what is NATO?
Already-preexisting integration of most EU armies (and the rest aren’t completely out of the loop) as well as Canada Turkey, Norway, and Iceland.
The long and short of it is if the US should bail out of NATO what is left is an absolute behemoth of a force with severe shortcomings in power projection and strategic airlift capacity. The latter only until Ukraine is admitted they have Antonov. Not sure whether we want much power projection but the lift capacity is a shortfall. On the upside we have more than enough stealth subs to stop others from projecting with aircraft carriers.
From the US side, strategically, this is just a self-inflicted wound: There’s a couple of US soldiers in Europe as part of tripwire forces, relevant politically but not in combat terms, the rest is there to project force into the middle east. They’d be giving that up, I wonder what Israel thinks of that. The US would not have been capable to do Iraq or Afghanistan without European bases.
American here: no objections whatsoever. This is the correct answer. Our government is a bag of dicks, and a lot of us hate it too.
