Its… not like the joke was some kind of complex, voluminous written work that I searched through to find a few scant possibly problematic terms and blow them out of proportion.
Passive aggressive?
I wasn’t passive at all. I was quite direct. I very clearly said that this kind of a joke is sexist and harmful, and explained the reasons why.
Passive aggressive would be… being indirect, implying a thing without explicitly saying it.
… Like what this joke does.
The joke doesn’t work if there are not preconceived notions of when it is and is not acceptable for a man to express themself in a way that would imply they are in extreme pain.
I showed medical documentation pointing toward the likelihood that he may actually be in extreme pain, and your response is ‘its just a cold’.
You seem to be quite triggered, throwing around total mischaracterizations of what I said, e-shouting CHILL in all caps, frequently cursing…
You’re certainly coming off as having an irrational and emotional response to this, your stance is literally ‘its just a joke bro’, much like a MAGA.
“talking like a man dying in battle”: This refers to a tropy type of scene in various works of fiction where a soldier has taken what is obviously a mortal wound. But the soldier is in denial so they speak about how they’ll heal from the wound and about what they’ll do when they get back home…as if they won’t be dying momentarily.
Okay, so then this twitter woman’s husband gets sick right? And he says “I’m gonna heal up and smoke us some ribs…Just like we used to do…I’m gonna get better”. The content, structure, and tone of those few sentences (if you allow your mind to get into a little bit of a relaxed and humor oriented state) is reminiscent of the way the dying soldiers in fiction often speak.
So here’s where the humor comes in. The husband just has a cold! Why is he saying those things? Of course he’s going to “get better”. But that silly billy was talking like a dying soldier when it was just a cold!!! Isn’t that a knee slapper. His problem was so small compared to the soldier’s but he spoke about it in the same way! Why, he’s a man! He shouldn’t complain when he’s suffering at all! What a pussy!
Oh wait. She didn’t say that last part. She didn’t imply it. Cause that’s not what the joke is about. Cause the joke isn’t reliant on notions of gender roles. At best ideas about gender roles adds some salt to the flavor of the joke.
Edit: I toned it down, but I hope my sarcasm and disdain for you still comes through.
Yeah, the dying soldier trope is a traditonally male stereotype because men have traditionally been the only soldiers in front line combat in … almost all industrialized societies for hundreds of years, almost all civilized societies capable of fielding an army for all of recorded history… to the point that a depiction of a female soldier was seen as either taboo, exceptional, or intentionally provocative untill very, very recently.
…
Patton Oswalts ‘pants-fitting’ joke doesn’t play off of the gender dynamics because the baseline social presumption (and literally stated premise) is that both he and the soldier are male, so there is no gender dichotomy to frame the joke as a woman contrasting themself against a man or visa versa…
… It does play off the trope of the dying soldier … because Patton is mocking himself, making himself the butt of the joke for treating himself being too fat to fit into the pants he fancies as gravely as a man facing imminent death.
Please, please note that the comparison to the dying soldier is a way of hyperbolizing comparative suffering in a way that mocks the person that is not the dying soldier.
…
Why, he’s a man! He shouldn’t complain when he’s suffering at all! What a pussy!
Oh wait. She didn’t say that last part. She didn’t imply it. Cause that’s not what the joke is about. Cause the joke isn’t reliant on notions of gender roles.
The joke literally is the implied mockery via comparison to man ‘worthy’ of expressing pain, and the context of the joke is a dichotomy between the genders of the subject telling, and object of the joke.
It only works as a joke because of this unspoken implication, and the joke is that her husband’s suffering is invalid.
Without that implication, all the joke is, is:
But that silly billy was talking like a dying soldier when it was just a cold!!! Isn’t that a knee slapper.
If all the joke was, was ‘he act like one thing when he not that thing’ then no, it isn’t a good joke at all, which you yourself seem to affirm with your sarcasm.
‘He ate a red delicious apple, but he said to me, it didn’t taste like a green granny smith apple!’
This is a similarly structured ‘joke’, and you will likely note it is not funny, because it lacks any context, and is not very interesting on its own.
But if I now follow that up with:
‘…and that was how he discovered that he is colorblind.’
Now we have some additional context and implied mockery or maybe pity, and maybe this approaches being an actually funny joke.
Do you see now how jokes often rely context?
Additional information, either stated or generally assumed?
How the only part of the joke you seem to think is funny… isn’t? When it doesn’t coincide with the implication of mockery?
…
The husband just has a cold! Why is he saying those things? Of course he’s going to “get better”.
You continue to just entirely disregard the validity of what I pointed out in my original post.
You… seem to think the joke hinges on this, that man is acting wildly unlike what he would be expected to act like in this situation.
So… that’s the entire problem, this comparison to expected behavior can only be made … if there is an expectation that men and women experience flus the same, and that men should generally act tougher than women.
My entire post was pointing out that men don’t have as strong immune responses to common flus, and … this apparently just is not computing in your head, so you’re disregarding it and acting like men and women experience flus the same.
You haven’t challenged this in any meaningful way, at all. You are just continuing forward with a total rejection of the core point I was making, and provided evidence for, without actually presenting an argument or counter evidence as to why or how it is invalid.
You are simply asserting ‘nuh-uh!’ and barreling forward.
You’ve encountered inconvenient information and are just knee jerk rejecting it without consideration, whilst being extremely rude in the process.
This is exactly what a braindead MAGA would do.
…
Further, the kind of ‘speaking as if you are going to make it, and do your favorite thing one more time, even though the situation seems very dire’… you seem to just think this is entirely a fiction of media, and it isn’t.
There are numerous recorded historical instances of this happening on battlefields, in people’s memoirs, and with people in a hospital knowing there’s not a great liklihood they’ll survive.
You’ve obviously never served in combat or as a medic or doctor or nurse of any kind, or comforted a dying loved one in hospital.
… Painstakingly combed through?
Its… not like the joke was some kind of complex, voluminous written work that I searched through to find a few scant possibly problematic terms and blow them out of proportion.
Passive aggressive?
I wasn’t passive at all. I was quite direct. I very clearly said that this kind of a joke is sexist and harmful, and explained the reasons why.
Passive aggressive would be… being indirect, implying a thing without explicitly saying it.
… Like what this joke does.
The joke doesn’t work if there are not preconceived notions of when it is and is not acceptable for a man to express themself in a way that would imply they are in extreme pain.
I showed medical documentation pointing toward the likelihood that he may actually be in extreme pain, and your response is ‘its just a cold’.
You seem to be quite triggered, throwing around total mischaracterizations of what I said, e-shouting CHILL in all caps, frequently cursing…
You’re certainly coming off as having an irrational and emotional response to this, your stance is literally ‘its just a joke bro’, much like a MAGA.
My brother in christ… Let me explain the joke so you can understand the way it doesn’t rely on any notions of gender to work. For an external example, listen to Patton Oswalt tell a similar joke that also compares something trivial (his pants not fitting) to a dying soldier.
“talking like a man dying in battle”: This refers to a tropy type of scene in various works of fiction where a soldier has taken what is obviously a mortal wound. But the soldier is in denial so they speak about how they’ll heal from the wound and about what they’ll do when they get back home…as if they won’t be dying momentarily.
Okay, so then this twitter woman’s husband gets sick right? And he says “I’m gonna heal up and smoke us some ribs…Just like we used to do…I’m gonna get better”. The content, structure, and tone of those few sentences (if you allow your mind to get into a little bit of a relaxed and humor oriented state) is reminiscent of the way the dying soldiers in fiction often speak.
So here’s where the humor comes in. The husband just has a cold! Why is he saying those things? Of course he’s going to “get better”. But that silly billy was talking like a dying soldier when it was just a cold!!! Isn’t that a knee slapper. His problem was so small compared to the soldier’s but he spoke about it in the same way!
Why, he’s a man! He shouldn’t complain when he’s suffering at all! What a pussy!Oh wait. She didn’t say that last part. She didn’t imply it. Cause that’s not what the joke is about. Cause the joke isn’t reliant on notions of gender roles. At best ideas about gender roles adds some salt to the flavor of the joke.
Edit: I toned it down, but I hope my sarcasm and disdain for you still comes through.
Yeah, the dying soldier trope is a traditonally male stereotype because men have traditionally been the only soldiers in front line combat in … almost all industrialized societies for hundreds of years, almost all civilized societies capable of fielding an army for all of recorded history… to the point that a depiction of a female soldier was seen as either taboo, exceptional, or intentionally provocative untill very, very recently.
…
Patton Oswalts ‘pants-fitting’ joke doesn’t play off of the gender dynamics because the baseline social presumption (and literally stated premise) is that both he and the soldier are male, so there is no gender dichotomy to frame the joke as a woman contrasting themself against a man or visa versa…
… It does play off the trope of the dying soldier … because Patton is mocking himself, making himself the butt of the joke for treating himself being too fat to fit into the pants he fancies as gravely as a man facing imminent death.
Please, please note that the comparison to the dying soldier is a way of hyperbolizing comparative suffering in a way that mocks the person that is not the dying soldier.
…
The joke literally is the implied mockery via comparison to man ‘worthy’ of expressing pain, and the context of the joke is a dichotomy between the genders of the subject telling, and object of the joke.
It only works as a joke because of this unspoken implication, and the joke is that her husband’s suffering is invalid.
Without that implication, all the joke is, is:
If all the joke was, was ‘he act like one thing when he not that thing’ then no, it isn’t a good joke at all, which you yourself seem to affirm with your sarcasm.
‘He ate a red delicious apple, but he said to me, it didn’t taste like a green granny smith apple!’
This is a similarly structured ‘joke’, and you will likely note it is not funny, because it lacks any context, and is not very interesting on its own.
But if I now follow that up with:
‘…and that was how he discovered that he is colorblind.’
Now we have some additional context and implied mockery or maybe pity, and maybe this approaches being an actually funny joke.
Do you see now how jokes often rely context?
Additional information, either stated or generally assumed?
How the only part of the joke you seem to think is funny… isn’t? When it doesn’t coincide with the implication of mockery?
…
You continue to just entirely disregard the validity of what I pointed out in my original post.
You… seem to think the joke hinges on this, that man is acting wildly unlike what he would be expected to act like in this situation.
So… that’s the entire problem, this comparison to expected behavior can only be made … if there is an expectation that men and women experience flus the same, and that men should generally act tougher than women.
My entire post was pointing out that men don’t have as strong immune responses to common flus, and … this apparently just is not computing in your head, so you’re disregarding it and acting like men and women experience flus the same.
You haven’t challenged this in any meaningful way, at all. You are just continuing forward with a total rejection of the core point I was making, and provided evidence for, without actually presenting an argument or counter evidence as to why or how it is invalid.
You are simply asserting ‘nuh-uh!’ and barreling forward.
You’ve encountered inconvenient information and are just knee jerk rejecting it without consideration, whilst being extremely rude in the process.
This is exactly what a braindead MAGA would do.
…
Further, the kind of ‘speaking as if you are going to make it, and do your favorite thing one more time, even though the situation seems very dire’… you seem to just think this is entirely a fiction of media, and it isn’t.
There are numerous recorded historical instances of this happening on battlefields, in people’s memoirs, and with people in a hospital knowing there’s not a great liklihood they’ll survive.
You’ve obviously never served in combat or as a medic or doctor or nurse of any kind, or comforted a dying loved one in hospital.
…
In conclusion:
Holy shit you are a condescending asshole.
Whoever posts the longest comment wins.
That was an absolute trip to read. It’s crazy how we both think the other is really fundamentally missing the point. Just wow.
You are missing the point.
I made a point, you argued around it, thinking you were arguing against it, then repeated that cycle.
It’s crazy that you do not comprehend this.
You are an ass and I will not be communicating with you further.