• SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      I respect it by accepting the outcome of the legal process, even if I don’t like it, not by tying myself up in conversational knots. I, for one, will continue to say that he committed crimes, because he did. Whether he’s convicted is different matter.

      • President_Pyrus@feddit.dk
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        1 year ago

        I respect it by accepting the outcome of the legal process, even if I don’t like it, not by tying myself up in conversational knots.

        I, for one, will continue to say that he committed crimes, because he did. Whether he’s convicted is different matter.

        English may be my second language, but isn’t those pretty contradictory?

        • PugJesus@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          “I already believe he is guilty” is an opinion which does not violate the legal process unless you’re in the juror’s box or otherwise involved in the justice system prosecuting him.

        • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          I don’t think so. One is a statement of (perceived) fact. The other the outcome of a process. Committing crimes is what triggers criminal legal proceedings. At least, in a just world. There are too many people convicted by a court of law who did not commit a crime, and I’m not going to call them criminals.

          • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Committing crimes is what triggers criminal legal proceedings.

            Being accused of committing a crime is what triggers criminal legal proceedings. Many people commit crimes and get away with it because they have no accusers. Many others are defendants who are accused, but did not actually commit any crime. I’m not saying that Trump didn’t commit crimes (it’s pretty obvious that he did), but I am pointing out that it is the accusation and being formally charged that causes one to be prosecuted. In my mind, it’s an important distinction.

            • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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              1 year ago

              Fair point, and a good elaboration. That dovetails with my thinking, too. If a house gets robbed and there’s no evidence who did it, we still call it a crime, even without a conviction in court. If we accuse somebody of it, that’s a good use of “accused criminal” in the colloquial sense.

              • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                I probably should have elaborated further in my first comment. The average Fediverse user seems to be highly reactionary, and I shouldn’t have assumed that people would read deeper into what I was trying to say.

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It’s my second language too and I can see how it might be confusing, but as far as I can tell, they’re saying

          “I’ll accept the verdict whether or not he’s declared guilty. That won’t stop me from continuing to say he’s guilty, though”

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You must be either very rich and powerful or very delusional if you think the US “justice” system protects you and Trump equally 🙄

      Also, innocent until proven guilty is not a rare concept globally by any stretch of the imagination so you can stow your American Exceptionalism bullshit too while you’re at it.

      • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        It’s pretty rare in fact. Vast majority of humanity lives under judicial systems that require defendants to prove their innocence rather than prosecutors to prove the defendants’ guilt.

    • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Given the reams of evidence that have been widely shared, I’m pretty comfortable applying my own standard of reasonable doubt and point out the obvious - he’s guilty.

      I’m not doling out consequences - if me saying that hurts his feelings, he’s welcome to try suing me.