Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat but only what’s hunted myself so I can be sure that animal wasn’t raised to die or all the other animal rights violations that come with the farming industry. I wouldn’t mind being hunted by a human or a bear aslong as I had a decent life and was able to experience things like freedom and they didn’t use any tools that I consider to be unfair like guns (knives and bows are okay but I prefer handmaking them on site) so the argument of “but what if u were the animal” doesn’t work for me because that’s how I got to this position.
I’m writing this mainly cause I’m curious abt your thoughts on my position. Do u think I’m as bad as farm industry users because I don’t mind eating meat, do u think I’m just a bit depressed and/or psychopathic because I wouldnt mind dying and killing or do u think my position is actually reasonable but its just not how u personally view the issue.
That’s the contradiction you have to live with as an omnivore. I’m not a hunter, I can’t stand the thought of hurting another animal for any reason (human or otherwise). But, I refuse to give up chicken, pork, and beef consumption, I just love those things too much and I feel unhealthy when I DON’T have meat in my diet. So - brand me a murderer if you must. But at least I will go down as such with a full and happy belly.
And accusing people of murder for being carnivorous animals doesn’t make you sound particularly intelligent. You sound not just silly but very self-righteous. You think plants don’t have nervous systems or communities? Wake up, knucklehead - anyway you look at it, we humans are killing living things in order to feed ourselves. Get over yourself.
I also have autism and have tried alot of vegan products. I’m not lying when I say I would starve if only given those to eat. Nuts do work for protein but I sorta binge eat them because they taste incredibly good and I think I developed a mild allergy so I don’t wanna eat them too often in case it gets worse
Edit: I’ve starved myself for weeks before on things like school trips simply because there wasn’t any food I could eat so when I say couldn’t I’m not exaggerating
Edit 2: I tried eating nuts for protein because I don’t eat enough but I think I developed some form of allergy because I binge ate them because I liked them so much. I’ve tried other solutions just a heads up
I have sensory issues. Autism is a sensory disability which can cause sensory overload from things like bright lights, loud sounds or even certain textures like baked beans. I literally cannot live a normal life and just do things like eat baked beans in the same way a depressed person can’t just be happy
The only foods I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes I have it with tomato. I am an extremely picky eater and not by choice
Edit: I’m actually curious abt this because I struggle to believe someone doesn’t know what autism is especially on lemmy but would u rather me starve because of a condition that I have no control over?
I know what autism is and I of course don’t want you to starve, I just had no idea what you meant when you said that you couldn’t eat beans because of it.
FWIW I don’t like eating baked beans by themselves, either. Are you okay with beans as an ingredient, like in soup, chili, or burritos?
I don’t like soup or chilli, I haven’t tried burritos. I’d imagine I’d like just the bread bit and with tomatoes but the more ingredients added the less likely I’d be able to eat it. Tbh I don’t like complex foods in general they “confuse” my taste buds if that makes sense. Adding food to mask the flavours and textures of another food is more likely to make me associate the liked food with the disliked food and begin disliking the previously liked one rather than make it tolerable
I just want to chime in and say it is interesting to find a hunter in every vegan thread like this, even though i have not met one irl (i guess because i live in a huge ass city).
Well, I’m not murdering it personally, I could never do that, but you’re right about them having every right to live their life. But if we didn’t slaughter some animals for meat, there’d be no room on earth for us humans, we’d be standing atop stacks of sheep and cows. And besides, they’re contributing to my well being and nutrition so I imagine they get a gold star in pig heaven for that.
Well I wouldn’t mind dying even by a human if it was in the same way I hunt. So r u telling me its fine? I’d very much doubt that’s what u mean from the (perceived) tone, but ur acc words are saying that cause I did mention before I don’t really mind dying like that yk it’s fair and I had a chance to survive it’s just natural selection at that point. I wouldn’t enjoy it for sure and def not in the moment but I wouldn’t care all that much either infact I’d probably prefer to be killed by an animal so that my body can be eaten and reused as fuel for plants and animals rather than wasted.
Yea this is basically my current position on meat eating. In the most likely far future I’d probably rather animal farming everywhere to be banned however ud need to ensure the people who depend on it can still eat which could be hard to do in the present for various reasons. Same with hunting I’d prolly rather that be banned and have specialised dieticians for people with sensory issues who would be able to dedicate time to finding a food that works for people rather than the other person having to interrupt their life for it.
Imma preface this by saying I’m talking abt a very small section of the population.
I don’t think we could really get rid of meat eating entirely. I mean 100% all the people who do it because its the “best” source of protein or just because they prefer it over other things however there is actual medical conditions like arfid and autism that could cause people to have the only logical source of protein be meat. I myself am autistic and I try to avoid meat where I can because I wouldnt enjoy dying and know animals wouldnt however none of the other solutions ive tried could work long term hence why ive tried finding ways to minimise the harm. My diet is just overall very restrictive in the past few weeks ive basically just eaten various bread products sometimes plain sometimes with tomato. I’m not saying you are cause u honestly come off as quite civil but I’ve noticed a tendency for online vegans to get quite aggressive over the issue which feels (this is a very strong word but I can’t think of a better one) almost ableistic to me as if some autistic people could never be morally correct. If u listened to the end of my wee rant, thank you.
I have autism and arfid. And I fundamentally do not believe in the premise that there exists any disability that forces you to harm or kill others. Except for vampirism. But we all know that Dracula deserves to die for being a bloodsucking rapey murderer, regardless of whether he has a choice. If I believed a disability could force someone to be evil, then I would be forced to believe in treating those people like Dracula. Thankfully, I reject the premise, and believe that powerful technologies of the physical and mental can overcome anything.
Well fundamentally sure I agree but realistically nah. I can’t really spend all day just researching and trying new foods for time and financial reasons. If I could I would but the only logical option I’ve found so far is meat. I haven’t eaten it in months and I almost definitely do need protein but it is hard for me to kill animals so I do try and avoid it but its stopping me from eating healthy. I’d genuinely rather just not get enough protein and expeirence protein deficiency than eat the vegan alternatives for it because all the ones I’ve tried r that bad to me.
Are potatoes and ramen not safe foods for you? I love them. Also, I recently tried Tofu out, and it is the blandest thing I have tasted in my life, which means it’s perfect. I just slap on whatever sauces and spices I want, and the texture is so so inoffensive.
The recommended amount of protein per meal is 15-30g. Potatoes have 3.1 grams of protein per serving. Ramen has 8 grams per serving so its better however every source I find even vegans ones warn against using solely ramen noodles for protein. The vegan ones say to add things ik i dont like including tofu which was too chewy. I don’t eat most meats becsuse of the chewiness too.
I don’t like the texture although I could see it working if I blended them, sieved it to get powder and then baked it into bread. The only potential issue I see there is if it makes the bread powdery but I doubt it would considering bread includes alot of powder already so I’ll try that.
Addiction is a form of slavery - people who sell drugs are selling others into the slavery of addiction and dependency. I only mention that because there are many types of slavery that people tend to overlook.
The problem is regardless of how or when you take an animal’s life you’re still taking an animal’s life. You clearly view them as less than human instead of viewing them as having the same right to life as anyone/anything else.
You can and do choose to eat meat when it isn’t required to sustain you.
I wouldn’t mind dying under those circumstances. I’m treating the animal as I’d want to be treated myself. How am I viewing them as sub-human? I personally wouldn’t kill even a consenting human because of laws but I’d rather eat consenting human meat assuming it was safe ans ethically sourced (e.g. not a company that gets you to sign a misleading agreement).
Edit: Infact when I die I want to be thrown in a forest and eaten by animals and absorbed by the ground though I imagine there’s laws preventing this
If they consented, sure. I wouldn’t care abt someone killing me if I consented to the act and method and they didn’t like manipulate into consenting.
Edit: I’d include depressed people as predatory like the way child sex is
Edit 2: I’d also feel emotions for sure but morally it’s better than killing animals because Idk whether the animal consented so I’d push through it because its the better option even if it is harder
Do u normally armchair diagnose people because I’m curious abt whether you’ve thought abt the harmful effects of telling people “you don’t have X, in reality you have Y” although I guess I wouldn’t care abt harming people becsuse I’m a sociopath
So do u just not care abt the harmful effects saying things like that can have? Now these examples didnt happen because I know I’m autistic and not a sociopath theyre also quite extreme but theyre still possible and theyre more likely for people with mental illness which u requested i get checked for.
Say I had taken your message to heart because I didn’t want to accept myself as autistic because of the social stigma around it and decided to stop getting any support at all because it meant I had to accept I was autistic. Would u feel okay abt that?
Say I had taken your message to heart and I really started believing I was a sociopath and went around to different doctors begging them for a sociopath diagnosis until they either give me one or I die. Would u feel okay abt that? Because you just implied you would be
That’s incorrect and unfair. By their physiology and biology, humans are meant to be omnivores. Our digestive tracts and tooth design are for carnivorous and vegetarian consuming, not just one or the other. I’ve known a lot of vegans and they all seem very judgment like you - unwilling to see any other side of an argument. But it’s really childish to call people cruel and evil who are just living according to their god-given needs.
God isn’t real and you don’t need meat. The only argument is whether or not you’re fine with murdering others for your taste pleasure. It’s a yes or a no, very simple.
I don’t treat them like property except for my dog ig but I also doubt I’d murder my dog because of the emotional bong the same way a bear wouldn’t murder its cub. I’m only okay with murdering them whenever they have a fair chance (e.g. no guns or other weapons you can’t make on site), they’re adults and they’re wild born and haven’t been held in captivity. I’d be okay with being murdered on those terms so I assume animals would be too
Anyone who eats meat is a murderer. I eat meat but only what’s hunted myself so I can be sure that animal wasn’t raised to die or all the other animal rights violations that come with the farming industry. I wouldn’t mind being hunted by a human or a bear aslong as I had a decent life and was able to experience things like freedom and they didn’t use any tools that I consider to be unfair like guns (knives and bows are okay but I prefer handmaking them on site) so the argument of “but what if u were the animal” doesn’t work for me because that’s how I got to this position.
I’m writing this mainly cause I’m curious abt your thoughts on my position. Do u think I’m as bad as farm industry users because I don’t mind eating meat, do u think I’m just a bit depressed and/or psychopathic because I wouldnt mind dying and killing or do u think my position is actually reasonable but its just not how u personally view the issue.
That’s all you needed to say
That’s the contradiction you have to live with as an omnivore. I’m not a hunter, I can’t stand the thought of hurting another animal for any reason (human or otherwise). But, I refuse to give up chicken, pork, and beef consumption, I just love those things too much and I feel unhealthy when I DON’T have meat in my diet. So - brand me a murderer if you must. But at least I will go down as such with a full and happy belly.
You’re fine with hurting animals, you sound silly when you lie. Outsourcing the murder doesn’t absolve you of guilt.
And accusing people of murder for being carnivorous animals doesn’t make you sound particularly intelligent. You sound not just silly but very self-righteous. You think plants don’t have nervous systems or communities? Wake up, knucklehead - anyway you look at it, we humans are killing living things in order to feed ourselves. Get over yourself.
That’s a lot of words to not say anything.
Honestly hilarious, you people are scripted I swear.
@tygerprints @BonesOfTheMoon @neurospice @Dontfearthereaper123 @toomanypancakes Plants don’t have nervous systems, we know that.
I also have autism and have tried alot of vegan products. I’m not lying when I say I would starve if only given those to eat. Nuts do work for protein but I sorta binge eat them because they taste incredibly good and I think I developed a mild allergy so I don’t wanna eat them too often in case it gets worse
there is other food than nuts which contains a lot of protein: https://imgur.com/mbEAg2g
I don’t like most of the foods in the images. I have found another solution though, by grinding pumpkin seed and baking it into bread.
Sounds good 😊
Yes you’re still bad because you could literally just eat beans but you go out and intentionally murder animals instead.
I have autism I couldn’t eat beans
Edit: I’ve starved myself for weeks before on things like school trips simply because there wasn’t any food I could eat so when I say couldn’t I’m not exaggerating
Edit 2: I tried eating nuts for protein because I don’t eat enough but I think I developed some form of allergy because I binge ate them because I liked them so much. I’ve tried other solutions just a heads up
What?
I have sensory issues. Autism is a sensory disability which can cause sensory overload from things like bright lights, loud sounds or even certain textures like baked beans. I literally cannot live a normal life and just do things like eat baked beans in the same way a depressed person can’t just be happy
The only foods I’ve eaten in the past few weeks is bread sometimes I have it with tomato. I am an extremely picky eater and not by choice
Edit: I’m actually curious abt this because I struggle to believe someone doesn’t know what autism is especially on lemmy but would u rather me starve because of a condition that I have no control over?
I know what autism is and I of course don’t want you to starve, I just had no idea what you meant when you said that you couldn’t eat beans because of it.
FWIW I don’t like eating baked beans by themselves, either. Are you okay with beans as an ingredient, like in soup, chili, or burritos?
I don’t like soup or chilli, I haven’t tried burritos. I’d imagine I’d like just the bread bit and with tomatoes but the more ingredients added the less likely I’d be able to eat it. Tbh I don’t like complex foods in general they “confuse” my taste buds if that makes sense. Adding food to mask the flavours and textures of another food is more likely to make me associate the liked food with the disliked food and begin disliking the previously liked one rather than make it tolerable
I just want to chime in and say it is interesting to find a hunter in every vegan thread like this, even though i have not met one irl (i guess because i live in a huge ass city).
I live in the countryside of a sparsely populated but very small country. I would imagine location is a fairly big factor
I think you’re still murdering an animal who wanted to live his life just as much as anyone.
Well, I’m not murdering it personally, I could never do that, but you’re right about them having every right to live their life. But if we didn’t slaughter some animals for meat, there’d be no room on earth for us humans, we’d be standing atop stacks of sheep and cows. And besides, they’re contributing to my well being and nutrition so I imagine they get a gold star in pig heaven for that.
Well I wouldn’t mind dying even by a human if it was in the same way I hunt. So r u telling me its fine? I’d very much doubt that’s what u mean from the (perceived) tone, but ur acc words are saying that cause I did mention before I don’t really mind dying like that yk it’s fair and I had a chance to survive it’s just natural selection at that point. I wouldn’t enjoy it for sure and def not in the moment but I wouldn’t care all that much either infact I’d probably prefer to be killed by an animal so that my body can be eaten and reused as fuel for plants and animals rather than wasted.
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Yea this is basically my current position on meat eating. In the most likely far future I’d probably rather animal farming everywhere to be banned however ud need to ensure the people who depend on it can still eat which could be hard to do in the present for various reasons. Same with hunting I’d prolly rather that be banned and have specialised dieticians for people with sensory issues who would be able to dedicate time to finding a food that works for people rather than the other person having to interrupt their life for it.
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Slavery is worse than murder. In an ideal world we would end murder as well, but I consider it less horrible.
Imma preface this by saying I’m talking abt a very small section of the population.
I don’t think we could really get rid of meat eating entirely. I mean 100% all the people who do it because its the “best” source of protein or just because they prefer it over other things however there is actual medical conditions like arfid and autism that could cause people to have the only logical source of protein be meat. I myself am autistic and I try to avoid meat where I can because I wouldnt enjoy dying and know animals wouldnt however none of the other solutions ive tried could work long term hence why ive tried finding ways to minimise the harm. My diet is just overall very restrictive in the past few weeks ive basically just eaten various bread products sometimes plain sometimes with tomato. I’m not saying you are cause u honestly come off as quite civil but I’ve noticed a tendency for online vegans to get quite aggressive over the issue which feels (this is a very strong word but I can’t think of a better one) almost ableistic to me as if some autistic people could never be morally correct. If u listened to the end of my wee rant, thank you.
I have autism and arfid. And I fundamentally do not believe in the premise that there exists any disability that forces you to harm or kill others. Except for vampirism. But we all know that Dracula deserves to die for being a bloodsucking rapey murderer, regardless of whether he has a choice. If I believed a disability could force someone to be evil, then I would be forced to believe in treating those people like Dracula. Thankfully, I reject the premise, and believe that powerful technologies of the physical and mental can overcome anything.
Well fundamentally sure I agree but realistically nah. I can’t really spend all day just researching and trying new foods for time and financial reasons. If I could I would but the only logical option I’ve found so far is meat. I haven’t eaten it in months and I almost definitely do need protein but it is hard for me to kill animals so I do try and avoid it but its stopping me from eating healthy. I’d genuinely rather just not get enough protein and expeirence protein deficiency than eat the vegan alternatives for it because all the ones I’ve tried r that bad to me.
Are potatoes and ramen not safe foods for you? I love them. Also, I recently tried Tofu out, and it is the blandest thing I have tasted in my life, which means it’s perfect. I just slap on whatever sauces and spices I want, and the texture is so so inoffensive.
The recommended amount of protein per meal is 15-30g. Potatoes have 3.1 grams of protein per serving. Ramen has 8 grams per serving so its better however every source I find even vegans ones warn against using solely ramen noodles for protein. The vegan ones say to add things ik i dont like including tofu which was too chewy. I don’t eat most meats becsuse of the chewiness too.
Pumpkin seeds
I don’t like the texture although I could see it working if I blended them, sieved it to get powder and then baked it into bread. The only potential issue I see there is if it makes the bread powdery but I doubt it would considering bread includes alot of powder already so I’ll try that.
Addiction is a form of slavery - people who sell drugs are selling others into the slavery of addiction and dependency. I only mention that because there are many types of slavery that people tend to overlook.
The problem is regardless of how or when you take an animal’s life you’re still taking an animal’s life. You clearly view them as less than human instead of viewing them as having the same right to life as anyone/anything else.
You can and do choose to eat meat when it isn’t required to sustain you.
I wouldn’t mind dying under those circumstances. I’m treating the animal as I’d want to be treated myself. How am I viewing them as sub-human? I personally wouldn’t kill even a consenting human because of laws but I’d rather eat consenting human meat assuming it was safe ans ethically sourced (e.g. not a company that gets you to sign a misleading agreement).
Edit: Infact when I die I want to be thrown in a forest and eaten by animals and absorbed by the ground though I imagine there’s laws preventing this
You wouldn’t kill a human because of laws? This implies you would kill humans if it weren’t illegal…
I didn’t think autism is your real problem… You might be a sociopath.
If they consented, sure. I wouldn’t care abt someone killing me if I consented to the act and method and they didn’t like manipulate into consenting.
Edit: I’d include depressed people as predatory like the way child sex is
Edit 2: I’d also feel emotions for sure but morally it’s better than killing animals because Idk whether the animal consented so I’d push through it because its the better option even if it is harder
Man, listen… I mean what I’m about to say… You need to talk to a professional.
Do u normally armchair diagnose people because I’m curious abt whether you’ve thought abt the harmful effects of telling people “you don’t have X, in reality you have Y” although I guess I wouldn’t care abt harming people becsuse I’m a sociopath
Well any concern I had for you and those around you is gone now.
So do u just not care abt the harmful effects saying things like that can have? Now these examples didnt happen because I know I’m autistic and not a sociopath theyre also quite extreme but theyre still possible and theyre more likely for people with mental illness which u requested i get checked for.
Say I had taken your message to heart because I didn’t want to accept myself as autistic because of the social stigma around it and decided to stop getting any support at all because it meant I had to accept I was autistic. Would u feel okay abt that?
Say I had taken your message to heart and I really started believing I was a sociopath and went around to different doctors begging them for a sociopath diagnosis until they either give me one or I die. Would u feel okay abt that? Because you just implied you would be
I already have. Any other suggestions?
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That’s incorrect and unfair. By their physiology and biology, humans are meant to be omnivores. Our digestive tracts and tooth design are for carnivorous and vegetarian consuming, not just one or the other. I’ve known a lot of vegans and they all seem very judgment like you - unwilling to see any other side of an argument. But it’s really childish to call people cruel and evil who are just living according to their god-given needs.
God isn’t real and you don’t need meat. The only argument is whether or not you’re fine with murdering others for your taste pleasure. It’s a yes or a no, very simple.
I don’t treat them like property except for my dog ig but I also doubt I’d murder my dog because of the emotional bong the same way a bear wouldn’t murder its cub. I’m only okay with murdering them whenever they have a fair chance (e.g. no guns or other weapons you can’t make on site), they’re adults and they’re wild born and haven’t been held in captivity. I’d be okay with being murdered on those terms so I assume animals would be too