They keep mentioning how Joyce and Kim are helpful to the player as representatives of liberalism, but Evrart and Measurehead are antagonists as representatives of socialism and fascism. And they’re saying the devs accidentally made liberals seem more agreeable this way.
Yeah no shit the liberals are more polite to Harry, he’s a cop. Evrart is trying to impede the investigation? No shit, Evrart is organizing a strike and you’re some dumbass cop working with a lady who’s on the board of directors of the company he’s striking against.
And they’re saying the devs screwed up by showing communists as murderers or ineffective? That’s the point, that building communism is hard, mistakes are made, and Harry’s bias as a dumbass alcoholic cop is going to color his perception of the world. I hate these libs so much. I thought liberals were supposed to be media savvy but they completely miss the point
I thought liberals were supposed to be media savvy but they completely miss the point
They consume media that makes them feel media savvy, especially when Adults In The Room Make The Hard Decisions and Get Shit Done in such media.
And when it came time to actually do something about the problems her company caused, Joyce is nowhere to be found.
That checks out.
first problem is eating media, that shit’s not good for you
But as I’m often told, entertainment has no meaningful effect on people that consume it, which is why so many of them can take it so personally if that entertainment is criticized.
i just wonder how hungry you have to be to eat books, tv, radio, whatever media
This is on the devs for making the communism vision quest not mandatory, but the game literally has a character turn to the screen and monologue about how Communism is the only ideology that promises a better world is possible for each and every human being and that struggling for it is worth it even if you fail or are killed.
Meanwhile the fascism quest is all about how cope is destroying your life and ability to relate to other human beings, the moralism side quest has you fuck around with dumb bullshit that doesnt matter and almost gets you kidnapped by the state, and ultraliberalism is memes.
spoilers just in case
All the political quests are Harry’s methods of dealing with pain, with varying degrees of success. They’re all cope. However the communist quest is the only one though where he tries dealing with his pain in a productive way, that is, he tries to remain optimistic and tries to at least understand other people. He comes across as goofy and arrogant when he says communist stuff, but that’s to be expected.
He’s an alcoholic cop who had amnesia and suddenly decided he’s the reincarnation of Kras Masov. He’s never read theory, never organized. His heart is in the right place but he’s a dumbass.
The other quests are unhealthy ways of dealing with pain, especially fascism. Fascist Harry becomes a shell whose life revolves around racial hatred. It’s the only quest where Kim will chew you out, beyond a professional capacity. He’ll get sick of your shit and will berate you outside the church. Kim is the most patient man on Earth and the fascism quest has you betray even his trust.
The moralism stuff is just Harry trying to live in the memory of his marriage. Ultraliberal I interpreted as trying to ignore everything that’s happening, compete dissociation. “This is good, actually” as an ideology.
honestly I think a sequel (yes I know it will never happen) could fix so much of the problem here. Imagine if they do some crazy branching quest that remembers your save from the last game and if you did the communist path he’s now read theory and isn’t so worthless. (even without the IP controversy I’m sure that would be too complex for an indie studio or smthing let me dream)
Imagine if they do some crazy branching quest that remembers your save from the last game
Get out of my head, I was thinking exactly this not a few hours ago. I’m of two minds about a potential sequel, but if one ever materializes, this is precisely what I hope it is. You’re probably right though, I doubt it’ll happen like this, if at all.
i’m personally a fan of sequels that have only vague references to whatever they’re following, but that’s just me. I’d want the events of a sequel to happen decades or centuries later, with the events of the first game a footnote in a random history book somewhere. I like seeing long-term time spans
that could work in disco I think for sure, although really I think where it’s needed to be used is more for continuing long epics/trilogies more often instead of “it’s the main character’s child!!!” cash grab stuff
Something easier to implement would be for the MC of the hypothetical sequel to meet Harry with corresponding dialogue changes for each political quest.
True, although like I said unlikely to happen unfortunately :/
Damn those moralists and their checks notes good governance.
The entire game is set in a Moralist-controlled deindustrialised slum area where drug abuse is rampant, and almost everyone lives in abject poverty.
The creative team are all Estonian leftists/Marxists who lived through the 1990s. It’s clearly what they draw on - the absolute devastation of global capitalism.
Also the large building that used to be full of thriving small businesses is destitute and nearly abandoned except the one dice maker lady. You can literally pick through the remains of the failure of capitalism that has left only a husk of itself behind.
And yeah, nearly every NPC in the game is living in poverty, is angry all the time, or has resigned themselves to quietly suffering
Damn those moralists and their checks notes good governance.
The Adults In The Room have Made The Hard Decisions and Got Shit Done
No, you don’t understand! That’s the fault of those union thugs!!
but have you dumb commies considered that the *price stabilitié* is fantastic now? Didn’t think so. Maybe if you actually attended an EPIS meeting you’d understand why you can’t just fix problems and improve your local living conditions.
(Note: I don’t understand either but I am paid to to pretend)
The Kingdom of Conscience will be exactly as it is now. Moralists don’t really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child’s toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded. Centrism isn’t change – not even incremental change. It is control. Over yourself and the world. Exercise it. Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
Wow cool airships!
“See? Moralism is BASED!”
These people played a game where every single time they said what they believed in they were mocked for it, and still came away thinking that it was based and neoliberalpilled.
One of my favorite exchanges in the game is when you can identify yourself as an ultraliberal to Evrart. He simply doesn’t entertain the idea. He finds the concept so stupid he just insults you and moves on.
“You’re not an ultraliberal Harry. Get the fuck out of here.”It is a clownish ideology and deserves to be clowned upon.
He straight up just calls you a slur even, he calls you the R word, pretty sure its the only real world slur they bother with too outside of the flaubert misdirection.
Cunoesse says a few slurs if I remember right, but they’re in Finnish. She says a few words that are sometimes used as slurs for gay people. I don’t remember if they’re censored though.
Half of Finnish words are swears centering around the word vittu though
Yeah the f slur’s used a lot in the game but it’s bleeped each time, and the jacket in the game that says “Piss [F-slur]” on the back has even been smudged so you can only read the first two letters of the second word
Sacred and Terrible Air has a character in it who’s pretty clearly a parody of a stereotypical Finn. I think Kurvits has something against Finns.
They’ve rationalized it in a “My enemies got mad and lost their temper therefore I am vindicated” kind of way.
The fact that the game mocks their beliefs merely reinforces the enlightened status of those beliefs.
That is a particularly annoying debate brained
. Yes I will get angry at you for saying fascist things even if you say them politely.
moment.
This is bringing out something that occurred to me the second time I played the game and met Joyce. She really is the liberal of the game.
When you meet Joyce early on, she is, at that stage of the game, one of the most directly helpful NPCs. She talks to you respectfully instead of (rightfully) calling you a pig, she makes jokes with you, she’s even willing to discuss reality with you, and some of her most likeable lines come out during that little philosophy talk. She’s got an education, and she clearly likes a deep conversation. She even shows that she has a little perspective on her position in the world, and she has some sympathy for the failed revolution and for the conditions that necessitated it. Wow what an intelligent and reasonable mature woman she is!
Try and ask her for money, though?
NOPE
And also shes a board member of the company that hired a fascist death squad that has literally literally no experience outside of committing gruesome sexual and physical cruelties on colonized peoples, to “deal with” a workers strike.
She’s very sneaky about her responsibility and involvement in that stuff, its easy to overlook while she makes jokes about being a great wyrm upon a hoard of the worlds wealth or something, what that actually involves.
Right, it’s why introducing her early is so effective. Like most people, Harry wakes into a world order established by people like her, and if you literally only take her and the world at face value, she just seems like a proper lady, when she is actually a key player in the horror of it all
while she makes jokes about being a great wyrm upon a hoard of the worlds wealth
Lots of liberals think that by “ironically” embracing what monsters they are that it makes them less monstrous.
Thesis: Ask her for lots of money
Antithesis: Don’t ask her for money
Synthesis: Ask her for just enough money to cover repairs to the Whirling In Rags room and a stay for the night
She will give you money if it’s a small amount. Although what I got from that exchange is she interprets it as a bribe.
Yeah and doing so involves almost turning yourself inside-out, but damn I do enjoy going all caps and saying GIVE ME MONEY NOW
Try and ask her for money, though?
First play though I screamed at her to give me a million billion réal and she eventually relented and gave me a hundred. Didn’t die in a dumpster.
Literally a skill issue
The whole setting is cope and seethe by commies about how based globalism is.
Imagine reading The Jakarta Method and come away with thinking it’s about how based
SukarnoSuharto and the CIA are.A fascist is just a liberal who understands how the sausage is made.
its Suharto, Sukarno was the guy that got couped
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who mixes their names up.
>it's r/neoliberal againexpand
PPI has been around since 1989 and views itself as Bill Clinton’s “idea mill” aka think tank. Why I call them a fossil fuel think tank is detailed here. They oppose climate action, defend fracking, and receive donations from Exxon Mobil.
it’s safe to say that their upvotes are farmed, and their organic support is mostly bourgeois economics and political science majors and interns who hope to work for PPI or a similar think tank one day. It’s basically a Neera Tanden farm.
The creator of r/neoliberal, Colin Mortimer, is the Director of the Center for New Liberalism at PPI, which seeks to “develop a salient identity around the center-left values that have increasingly come under fire in this age of populism.”
We don’t need r/neoliberal, I am already promoting center-left values by listening to the Adam Friedland Show
The whole setting is cope and seethe by commies about how based globalism is.
You can’t talk to a person like this, what can you possibly say to someone who goes “I love bombing a country into perpetual poverty and exploitation where children listen to snuff radio and do drugs, thats so based” except
Me, listening to the Sunday Friend: “yo this MF spittin”
“The Coalition believes in the importance of informing the public about the benefits of ze price stabilité. Transparency is one of our principles. Would you like an informational pamphlet?”
Me: Ahh yes, price stability.*
(Does not get it at all.)*
it’s incredible. they’re almost self aware
Finally found Paul Krugman’s target audience for this tweet
Dolores Dei best girl
r/neoliberal praising war criminals. Sounds right.
the mass murders are highly contested by contemporary scholars
Literal Slay Kween worship.
They’re even saying how cool it is she’s worshipped as a deity? The fuck
Worse, isn’t it heavily implied that she’s some manner of inhuman abomination who
spoiler
has the ability to pull information from the future via the Pale? And that by doing so she and others like her contribute to a potential entroponetic apocalypse caused by repeated time paradoxes?
Not an inhuman abomination at all. She was
major spoilers, sourced from non-gameplay content
a magpie, just like Harry. Magpies are humans who convert Crypto-Conveyant Phenomena into Novelty, which creates Pale as a byproduct. However, I don’t think that’s the only source of pale. And Harry being a magpie is why, if you play the moralist vision quest, the Moralintern picks him up and (it’s implied) later executes him. They know that a magpie, even one like Harry, could upset the natural order of their state religion.
Does that mean
spoiler
Doing the church sidequest is confirmed to doom Martinaise through the pale expanding?
spoiler
Supposedly, the nightclub can serve the same purpose that the church originally had: to keep the hole from expanding via the collective creative energy/experience, similar to how palewalkers are taught to write poetry.
evergreen
Cw:ableist jokes
lol that sub continues to be an unwitting self-parody
The first couple times I stumbled upon there I legitimately thought it was a parody
Neoliberalism’s inconsistencies can be summarized as such: neoliberals want the neoliberal status quo to be perpetuated, no matter how tattered and ragged it already is or how much a growing proportion of the world hates it, and they want to feel smart and superior for their status quo advocacy because it feels good to receive colonial treats while feeling superior for being the recipient.
i like how they think the moralists or ultralibs or w/e faction they think they are is the best choice
the world around the player is in utter decay as a result of said factions
cant make this shit up lmao
Someone with some insight might take away something from the fact that their preferred ideologies are both absent and omnipresent from the actual characters of the game.
The prime rep for ultraliberalism is a cynical billionaire whos company has just sent in a fascist death squad to resolve a labor strike, and anyone else who might be described as an “ultraliberal” in the game are literally on the shit tier of society either grifting for scraps or just completely delusional.
And moralisms prime rep is a literal occupying warship, followed by a bureaucrat who bullshits you about the economy while secretly engaging in sexual relationships with someone living in a filthy decaying slum, and finally Kim who deliberately refuses to engage in any serious politics and therefore doesnt really count.
Edit: Just remembered Trant, whos technically listed as a moralist on the wiki I guess but whos also an apolitical coward more than anything, and a crypto-social democrat.
The actual people of Martinaise are neither ultraliberals nor moralists, makes you think huh?
Someone in that thread was specifically praising the Sunday Friend lmao
Of course! He talks about economic responsibility to people who are suffering so badly from the economy they are blaming a supernatural curse for their misfortunes!
Its a neoliberal wet dream. I have to assume somewhere in the thread they are gushing about the vision of a future IKEA-fied Martinaise that the new ZAUM added with the photo mode update.
Here I though the guy praising a disconnected economic metric while sitting in a bombed out ruin where people live in abject poverty, where he goes for basically sex tourism was too on the nose
Trant seems truly neutral in the sense that he wouldn’t resist a revolution, as long as technical progress doesn’t get destroyed. He doesn’t seem neutral in the sense of being fully for the status quo.
the world around the player is in utter decay as a result of said factions
Gestures wildly at the real world and
spoilers for disco Elysium
These people are really claiming that the moralists are the best, most ethical faction when they’re the ones who got martinaise to the point that children are doing drugs in the street, the entire district is incredibly impoverished, the local government completely collapsed so the union had to take over all administration and law enforcement duties, there are drunks and drug addicts everywhere and then sprinkled in with all the misery there’s a few incredibly rich people who either don’t give a shit about (or aren’t even aware of) all the poverty around them all while the moralists still have guns pointed every section of the city and have it under military occupation (and we’re actually told that they nuke martinaise two decades after the game ends or so in response to another revolution).
But apparently the communists are bad because the guy who killed a murderous PMC thug was a bitter, angry old man with a sniper rifle.
there’s a few incredibly rich people who are either don’t give a shit about (or aren’t even aware of) all the poverty around them
Behold, the Adult In The Room:
That thing you’re told happens 2 decades after the game ends… How are you told that? Do you have to sit through all the credits to see it? I played through, got a little bit of dialogue at the very end from shivers and esprit du corps indicating that something is going to happen next, and then painfully long unstoppable credits. Tried to wait the credits out but it got to be too much so I ended up alt+F4ing and started a new run to try a different build.
spoiler
It’s in the church, you need specific high stats while getting everyone to dance. You pass out, speak with the city, and if you have the correct stats you receive a vision of the nuke.
If I remember right it says so explicitly in A Sacred and Terrible Air that it happens
Damn I did all that but don’t think I had the right stats because I did not receive that vision. Thank you!
I think it happens if you make the right checks during the dance rave sequence? You pass out and hear voices.
That segment is also a call-forward to something mentioned in Sacred and Terrible Air.
