• ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    Urban warfare against an entrenched enemy is a slow process. For example, recently it took Russia three months to completely capture Mariupol despite a willingness to inflict civilian casualties and disregard international opinion. Israel is much more constrained in both ways. I hope they have a plan for reaching their objectives quickly enough - a premature ceasefire would mean many people dead but very little accomplished.

    Israeli leaders understand that, but they had to take internal politics into account as well. “We’re not going to invade Gaza because we want to avoid international condemnation” would not have been acceptable to the majority of the people even if it were a good idea. I’m worried that this might have pushed them towards a course of action that they won’t be able to complete successfully.

    (I also wonder if in a perverse way, pressure to finish the war quickly actually leads to more civilian casualties. People’s emotions don’t process numbers very well, so a shorter but bloodier war may hurt Israel’s international relations less than a longer but less bloody one. This incentivizes acting quickly rather than taking the time to wait for better circumstances.)

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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      1 year ago

      For example, recently it took Russia three months to completely capture Mariupol despite a willingness to inflict civilian casualties and disregard international opinion. Israel is much more constrained in both ways.

      Israel has killed roughly as many civilians in the last month as were killed in Ukraine throughout the entire conflict. It’s preposterous to say Israel is more restrained in causing civilian casualties.

        • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights puts the number at 9,701 confirmed, though they do admittedly believe the true number is likely to be much higher. The Prosecutor General of Ukraine puts the confirmed number at 10,749, though they also think the real number is higher.

          Regardless of whether a single month of Israel’s war is roughly equal or only a third of the total casualties for a 21-month long invasion, once you started arguing that ~10,000 dead in a month is “restrained” you really should have considered how you got to that point.

          • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            It’s a relative valuation; restraint means the numbers could have been much higher, but aren’t. There are a lot of tactics Israel is capable of using and didn’t. They notify people before strikes. They demarcate which zones need to be evacuated. They are attacking military targets and not civilians. Restraint.

            • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              They “demarcated” all of northern Gaza. And then they bombed the south too. There are no warnings happening. And their “military” targets claim is trash. They didn’t know the invasion was happening and clearly don’t know where Hamas are. They’ve been destroying single homes of journalists, blowing up ambulances evacuating patients from hospitals they’re also threatening to bomb. There’s no reason at all to trust Israel when they claim every single building they destroy was housing Hamas.

              That they haven’t simply razed every square inch of Gaza to the ground (or fucking nuked it like one minister suggested) doesn’t make it “restrained”.