• ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    If the anarchists in the soviet union were allowed power, general plan Ost would have come to fruition. Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way, and have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR. If the soviet leadership didn’t protect the revolution from anarchists, part of my family would have died in a death camp instead of being liberated from one by red army soldiers.

    But the tankies stabbed the pure hearted anarchists in the back! Okay, maybe the anarchists shouldn’t have been idealists who cared more about coops than actually prosecuting a successful socialist transition. Literally read Lenin’s interaction with the anarchist prince.

    • DivineChaos100 [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way

      Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker’s job, and they are very good at self-organizing.

      have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR

      You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.

      • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker’s job, and they are very good at self-organizing.

        The anarchist workers didn’t do a good job. The popular front workers did a better job, the Soviet workers did a better job.

        You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.

        They had a chance in Catalonia, a much smaller field, and couldnt coordinate there.

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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      1 year ago

      Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. “Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!”. It always comes down to that, but it’s refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.

      Anyway, please take your historic fiction in the appropriate places. I can pull stories out of my ass as well, but that convinces no-one.

      PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!

      • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?

        Have you even absorbed the critiques enough that you are in a place to argue against them?

        Because this is serious stuff that you should be educated about before you make judgements about it.

        I’m very sympathetic to anarcho syndicalism, but it showed its weaknesses in Spain and sectarian anarchists blame it on the USSR instead of learning from it.

        PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!

        It is not socially well adapted to declare “appeal to emotion” when someone is communicating why something is personally important to them. What I’m doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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          1 year ago

          Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?

          Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War. Why don’t you go to the places where there’s anarchists up for that sort of thing?

          What I’m doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?

          You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it’s pretty manipulative.

          • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War.

            I asked you if you’ve even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.

            You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it’s pretty manipulative.

            It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won, it is giving you an explanation for why I have little sympathy for complaints by anarchists repeating the “stabbed in the back” myth instead of actually digging into the history of their project and learning from its failures to do better next time.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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              1 year ago

              I asked you if you’ve even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.

              That’s how they get you! taps forehead

              It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won,

              lol, yea it is. You don’t have any idea what would have happened if the anarchists won. Maybe they Spanish revolution would have worked without the backstab and Hitler would have expended himself. Who the fuck knows. It’s pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing which everyone has an emotional reaction to. Cmon…

              • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                That’s how they get you! taps forehead

                If the goal is to get you to read yes, that is the secret tankie plot, to make you a better anarchist who is able to grow from previous failures instead of acting like an aggrieved post ww1 german soldier.

                It’s pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing. Cmon…

                Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                  1 year ago

                  Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.

                  Tell me when the novel comes out.

              • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                That’s how they get you! taps forehead

                If you masturbate any more furiously in this thread you might faint from dehydration.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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              1 year ago

              Apparently shitting my pants is enough to have two dozen hexbears hopping mad to the point that they’re trolling through the comments days later trying to dunk on me. Stay mad, bby!

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                  1 year ago

                  Oh sorry I didn’t know “you shit your pants” and similar terms was your collective hexbest at a call out.

                  In that case I do apologize for thinking the random shitposts on random comments were due to anger. You’re clearly trying.

                  • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Not sure where you think you have the standing to call other people out for not putting effort into their posts when that is exactly the criticism being directed at you that you’re choosing to wallow in rather than address.

                    You are shitting your doo doo pants trying to maintain your smug sense of self all over this thread. You can’t engage in good faith so you’re pulling boomer quotes about pigeons playing chess and mugging at the crowd like they’re on your side to begin with.

                    You want to be treated respectfully, you seem to be implying. Deserve it first. Stop acting like a smirking piece of shit and you’ll be taken seriously. Or as seriously as you deserve to be taken when you’re in the barrel for posting something extremely stupid in the first place.

          • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Ah, nice try, but I already told you I’m not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War.

            Only about everything else, one-handedly.

      • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!

        I like it

        I love it

        It’s funny that

        It’s ironic that

        It’s interesting that

        Reddit-brained smug enlightened centrist liberals like yourself try to mask your rage with tedious “totally not mad” sentence openers.

      • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. “Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!”. It always comes down to that, but it’s refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.

        Anyone paying attention to what they actually said and not your petulant response will notice how far your characterization is off from the actual source. You’re putting on a shameful display.

        • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com hey why not this specific criticism?

          Remember when you acted like I was only insulting you and not making valid criticisms? Why don’t you reply to the valid criticisms instead of the insults you deserved when it became clear you refused to engage in good faith?

          • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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            1 year ago

            Because you’re patronizing. Y’all are patronizing af. So You don’t deserve nothing else but the ridicule and sarcasm I’ve been giving.

            Y’all can insult me all you want. Don’t worry, I can take it. There’s a reason my comments are still open to y’all.

            • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Oh wow you actually responded.

              So are you going to apologize for lying, or is it just onto this new latest excuse?

              Again, you’re being treated the way you deserve to be treated. It’s not happening in a vacuum. If you had acted like an adult in the first place no one would be treating you like a child.

              • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                1 year ago

                I am incapable of lying. So I have nothing to apologize for.

                But do keep up the patronizing attitude. It’s a winner for sure.

                • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  1 year ago

                  You force people to explain things to you like a child when you lie like this.

                  Listen dummy: you acted like you were only getting insulted and that there was an absence of genuine criticism. So then I pointed out the criticism you lied and pretended didn’t exist.

                  Then like the child you are, you changed your story and decided all of a sudden you weren’t responding because you didn’t like being treated like a child. Not even acknowledging your previous lie or the effort you forced others to go through to get past it.

                  Such is the manner you act like a child.

                  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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                    1 year ago

                    No I said a hexbear pile-on doesn’t count as callout. There were some patronizing arguments and one sealing who couldn’t accept that I won’t analyze the Spanish revolution on the spot. And awoo to which I replied earnestly. The rest was low quality shit posting