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ANNOUNCEMENT: defederating effective immediately from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works - Beehaw
beehaw.orghey folks, we’ll be quick and to the point with this one: ##### we have made the
decision to defederate from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. we recognize this
is hugely inconvenient for a wide variety of reasons, but we think this is a
decision we need to take immediately. the remainder of the post details our
thoughts and decision-making on why this is necessary. — we have been concerned
with how sustainable the explosion of new users on Lemmy is–particularly with
federation in mind–basically since it began. i have already related
[https://beehaw.org/post/520044?scrollToComments=true] how difficult dealing
with the explosion has been just constrained to this instance for us four
Admins, and increasingly we’re being confronted with external vectors we have to
deal with that have further stressed our capabilities (elaborated on below). an
unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time
here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some
pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of
improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and
federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t
wait on what we want to be developed here. separately, we want to do this now,
while the band-aid can be ripped off with substantially less pain. aside
from/complementary to what’s mentioned above, our reason for defederating, by
and large, boils down to: - these two instances’ open registration policy, which
is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it
makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior; - the
disproportionate number of moderator actions we take against users of these two
instances, and the general amount of time we have to dedicate to bad actors on
those two instances; - our need to preserve not only a moderated community but a
vibe and general feeling this is actually a safe space for our users to
participate in; - and the reality that fulfilling our ethos is simply not
possible when we not only have to account for our own users but have to account
for literally tens of thousands of new, completely unvetted users, some of whom
explicitly see spaces like this as desirable to troll and disrupt and others of
whom simply don’t care about what our instance stands for as Gaywallet puts it,
in our discussion of whether to do this: > There’s a lot of soft moderating that
happens, where people step in to diffuse tense situations. But it’s not just
that, there’s a vibe that comes along with it. Most people need a lot of trust
and support to open up, and it’s really hard to trust and support who’s around
you when there are bad actors. People shut themselves off in various ways when
there’s more hostility around them. They’ll even shut themselves off when
there’s fake nice behavior around. There’s a lot of nuance in modding a
community like this and it’s not just where we take moderator actions- sometimes
people need to step in to diffuse, to negotiate, to help people grow. This only
works when everyone is on the same page about our ethos and right now we can’t
even assess that for people who aren’t from our instance, so we’re walking a
tightrope by trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. That isn’t
sustainable forever and especially not in the face of massive growth on such a
short timeframe. > > Explicitly safe spaces in real life typically aren’t open
to having strangers walk in off the street, even if they have a bouncer to throw
problematic people out. A single negative interaction might require a lot of
energy to undo. and, to reiterate: we understand that a lot of people
legitimately and fairly use these instances, and this is going to be painful
while it’s in effect. but we hope you can understand why we’re doing this. our
words, when we talk about building something better here, are not idle
platitudes, and we are not out to build a space that grows at any cost. we want
a better space, and we think this is necessary to do that right now. if you
disagree we understand that, but we hope you can if nothing else come away with
the understanding it was an informed decision. this is also not a permanent
judgement. in the future as tools develop, cultures settle, attitudes and
interest change, and the wave of newcomers settles down, we’ll reassess whether
we feel capable of refederating with these communities. thanks for using our
site folks.
This sucks, and might be the reason I return to Reddit. This pretty much splits the Lemmy population in two halves
Except not really. I created a new account on lemmy.world once I saw the notice they were defederating. I’m sure I won’t be the only one to do that. I liked what they were trying to do over at beehaw but I don’t like being cut off from 2 of the biggest instances.
I hope you’re right. I’m just afraid .ml users will see no reason to leave the beehaw communities
If lemmy.ml gets big enough I wouldn’t be surprised if beehaw blocks them too. Alternatively what I see happening is that communities will be created here to replace the ones that were on beehaw. I see more people joining an instance that isn’t so restrictive which will make the communities bigger than the ones on beehaw
The beehaw communities won’t be able to have posts from sh.itjust.works and from lemmy.world, those communities will suffer as a huge chunk of contributors were just blocked.
Why would lemmy.ml users want to stay in communities that were just shot in the foot by their admins?
Not really, I’m sure there are other Lemmy instances that have access to both. I’m on kbin for example and can see and interact with lemmy.world, beehaw.org, and sh.itjust.works.
Federation on kbin only just started working (it was disabled due to server load). Once kbin posts start showing up on beehaw they’ll probably defederate kbin too, since kbin is also open registration
Yeah, but at the moment, beehaw, ml, world and shitjustworks are the 4 biggest lemmy servers. Now, beehaw and ml will stay on the beehaw communities, while world and shotjustworks will have to split out into new ones
AFAIK this isn’t a permanent thing, they just need to catch up on how they’re going to mod it all so if they get some more mods or better modding tools they sound like they’re willing to federate again.
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Or you can have an account on other than the 4 big servers and still be able to see and interact with all content.
This only solves the problem for you. It doesn’t solve the problem for the community, nor does it scale well (if everyone does it, then you’re just gonna repeat the same dance over and over).
I mean if the users of one big instance would be on 100 smaller ones, it would provide a more granular ability to defederate.
I’m only pointing out that the whole idea of the Fediverse would be to register wherever, where you feel “at home” with like-minded users instead of just making an account at the biggest server, as that makes managing the network untenable.
I’m just saying this is one of the reasons there shouldn’t be a “big 4” of instances. Especially as the Beehaw guys seem to be acting out their powermod fantasies.
No it doesnt. Lemmy has 130k users Kbin has 30k. Beehaw and lemmy.world have 30k combined. Everyone will still be able to see posts from both of those instances. Most of us have only been here for a few days so switching servers is not a big deal if you happened to create your account on beehaw or lemmy.world.