I think the drive to have children is so illogical one might call it a mental illness. Why do you need a kid? “I dunno, it just made me feel better”. Why didn’t you adopt? “I dunno, just wanted my own”.
The adoption part really strikes a nerve with me, too. “My own,” is always how I’ve heard it and it’s so indicative of a purely self-centered reason for wanting children - it’s not about the children at all, it’s about the parent. But, that’s never what you’ll hear from a parent when they try to describe how selfless the ineffability of parental love is for their child: “I can’t explain it, you just have to be a parent to understand.” I don’t buy it, as there are countless unloved/unwanted children doomed to grow up in toxic or abusive environments, as well as many step-parents and adopted parents who clearly love their children as much as any biological parent.
If we could measure the essence of “this child was wanted and will be loved” I bet it would be significantly higher for adopted kids. On average, of course.
I think it’s a clear sign that it’s the selfish genes talking, puppeting your higher functions to make sure they survive. Not for any reason, but just because those are the genes most likely to continue reproducing.
It’s a bit egotistic, but I like to imagine I’ve sublimated the drive to reproduce, by helping out my friends and their kids when I can. Hehe stupid genes, you think these are your kids because the bonds of friendship getting crossed wires with direct kinship. Stupid-ass genes, you don’t even know your ride ends here.
Yeah it’s really egotistic, but it’s a fun little fiction.
I think people don’t realize just how expensive and difficult adoption is. My ex wife and I looked into it when we were having fertility trouble. Turns out, five rounds of IVF would have been cheaper than adoption. People got used to the idea that adoption is cheap in the 80s and 90s when China, Korea, and a lot of the Eastern European states had an excess of unwanted babies. That is no longer the case and babies are very hard to come by.
Not sure I understand. So expensive because babies are more preferred?
Or are babies not that much preferred and there’s not actually that many kids in foster care/orphaned?
Most aren’t babies, though, and lots have been through a lot. Having a baby is already a huge commitment; you can’t fault people for not wanting to take on a kid with a history of trauma or a significant disability. That’s a tall order and the people who do it are saints.
If you have insurance, it’s often not that expensive to actually have a baby. IVF is expensive though, and only sometimes covered by insurance. We were looking at $25k for one round of IVF and $5k for each subsequent round, if those were necessary. Adoption was around $50k from what I remember.
This is the best response. Yes, adoption is hard, takes a long time, and can be expensive, and it should be. Choosing to have a child without having the financial means set aside to hedge for their future would be irresponsible.
It’s not just financial. It’s the longterm commitment to care for another creature. Best example is the animal adoptions during lockdown. So many of those pets ended right back in shelters because people realized they liked the idea of a pet, not the actuality. That’s a big part of the reason the barrier of entry is so high for adoption.
I am always flabbergasted by people trying to argue that having kids is illogical, selfish, unnatural, etc.
Like, the fuck you think we’ve been doing as a species for millions of years? What ya think every other living being on earth is doing?
People trying to reinvent the wheel and making something mundane unnecessarily complicated just annoy the shit out of me. No one is forcing anyone to have kids (at least in societies that don’t ban abortions). You don’t want them or don’t feel equipped to have them - no one cares. But yeah let’s make your own insecurities and traumas and whatever personal reasons you have into an ideology that promotes that creating new life is bad per se.
Having kids is neither good nor bad. It is not selfish or altruistic. It just is. There is no need in overly moralizing it.
I’m guessing you’re in your early twenties and once you grow out of your edge lord phase, you might get the idea to procreate regardless of your bullshit opinions you have now. Unless you start over with school and take it seriously, you shouldn’t pass on your verbal diarrhea to children.
you might get the idea to procreate regardless of your bullshit opinions you have now.
Lol the arrogance. You just can’t fathom that other people think differently. You just assume anyone who doesn’t have the same weird subconscious drives as you is somehow defective. And when confronted with the illogical nature of what you believe, you get angry and defensive.
Here’s the way I see it: we are social creatures, and our relationships define a lot about us and our lives. A parent’s relationship with a child is a very significant one, which can be very rewarding in the right circumstances. We all know the cliche about “if we have a baby it will fix this relationship” and similar.
The drive to reproduce seems like an evolutionary necessity. We wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for that. But that’s an instinct really, and not a rational thought-out thing.
Adoption is extremely important, but it is also the hard mode of becoming a parent. The only reason I even have a biological child is because my wife and I tried one more doctor after being a year or two into the crushing roller coaster of the adoption process, and even having a double adoption fall through.
I think the drive to have children is so illogical one might call it a mental illness. Why do you need a kid? “I dunno, it just made me feel better”. Why didn’t you adopt? “I dunno, just wanted my own”.
The adoption part really strikes a nerve with me, too. “My own,” is always how I’ve heard it and it’s so indicative of a purely self-centered reason for wanting children - it’s not about the children at all, it’s about the parent. But, that’s never what you’ll hear from a parent when they try to describe how selfless the ineffability of parental love is for their child: “I can’t explain it, you just have to be a parent to understand.” I don’t buy it, as there are countless unloved/unwanted children doomed to grow up in toxic or abusive environments, as well as many step-parents and adopted parents who clearly love their children as much as any biological parent.
I think of it as more of a fear of death and passing on your own genetics as of way of soothing that fear.
Totally devalues the kid as their own person though (common thing for parents to do).
Unfortunately, that’s exactly my observation too. Some people don’t seem to value life itself, but only if it suits them.
This is exactly it. The parenting hormones sooth the existential dread a little bit
If we could measure the essence of “this child was wanted and will be loved” I bet it would be significantly higher for adopted kids. On average, of course.
I think it’s a clear sign that it’s the selfish genes talking, puppeting your higher functions to make sure they survive. Not for any reason, but just because those are the genes most likely to continue reproducing.
It’s a bit egotistic, but I like to imagine I’ve sublimated the drive to reproduce, by helping out my friends and their kids when I can. Hehe stupid genes, you think these are your kids because the bonds of friendship getting crossed wires with direct kinship. Stupid-ass genes, you don’t even know your ride ends here.
Yeah it’s really egotistic, but it’s a fun little fiction.
makes me wonder if they have tried a pet and wether or not that wasnt just exactly the same feeling
I think people don’t realize just how expensive and difficult adoption is. My ex wife and I looked into it when we were having fertility trouble. Turns out, five rounds of IVF would have been cheaper than adoption. People got used to the idea that adoption is cheap in the 80s and 90s when China, Korea, and a lot of the Eastern European states had an excess of unwanted babies. That is no longer the case and babies are very hard to come by.
So if babies are hard to come by, are the older orphans hard to come by as well? Or is it just that baby adoption is the preference?
Yeah that’s what makes it so expensive. If you’re willing to adopt an older kid it’s still pricey but not the same.
Not sure I understand. So expensive because babies are more preferred? Or are babies not that much preferred and there’s not actually that many kids in foster care/orphaned?
Still 65,000 kids waiting to be adopted in the US alone. On average.
Like, how expensive? Isn’t delivering a baby in a hospital like 10k? Is it really more difficult and expensive than 9 months of pregnancy?
Most aren’t babies, though, and lots have been through a lot. Having a baby is already a huge commitment; you can’t fault people for not wanting to take on a kid with a history of trauma or a significant disability. That’s a tall order and the people who do it are saints.
If you have insurance, it’s often not that expensive to actually have a baby. IVF is expensive though, and only sometimes covered by insurance. We were looking at $25k for one round of IVF and $5k for each subsequent round, if those were necessary. Adoption was around $50k from what I remember.
Some states require IVF coverage by medical insurance. With those prices, it may actually be cheaper in certain circumstances to move.
This is the best response. Yes, adoption is hard, takes a long time, and can be expensive, and it should be. Choosing to have a child without having the financial means set aside to hedge for their future would be irresponsible.
It’s not just financial. It’s the longterm commitment to care for another creature. Best example is the animal adoptions during lockdown. So many of those pets ended right back in shelters because people realized they liked the idea of a pet, not the actuality. That’s a big part of the reason the barrier of entry is so high for adoption.
It’s the most basic survival instinct maybe? Jesus what a dumb fucking comment, holy shit.
I am always flabbergasted by people trying to argue that having kids is illogical, selfish, unnatural, etc. Like, the fuck you think we’ve been doing as a species for millions of years? What ya think every other living being on earth is doing?
People trying to reinvent the wheel and making something mundane unnecessarily complicated just annoy the shit out of me. No one is forcing anyone to have kids (at least in societies that don’t ban abortions). You don’t want them or don’t feel equipped to have them - no one cares. But yeah let’s make your own insecurities and traumas and whatever personal reasons you have into an ideology that promotes that creating new life is bad per se.
Having kids is neither good nor bad. It is not selfish or altruistic. It just is. There is no need in overly moralizing it.
Just because something is natural doesn’t make it rational.
The preservation of our own species is irrational, got it. Fuck off, edge lord. Please don’t ever get kids.
What a weird insult rofl
It’s like telling someone who doesn’t like drinking, “I hope you never have another beer!”
I’m guessing you’re in your early twenties and once you grow out of your edge lord phase, you might get the idea to procreate regardless of your bullshit opinions you have now. Unless you start over with school and take it seriously, you shouldn’t pass on your verbal diarrhea to children.
Lol the arrogance. You just can’t fathom that other people think differently. You just assume anyone who doesn’t have the same weird subconscious drives as you is somehow defective. And when confronted with the illogical nature of what you believe, you get angry and defensive.
Nah, I read your drivel and concluded that you’re either incredibly dumb or simply naive. I’m hoping for the latter.
Here’s the way I see it: we are social creatures, and our relationships define a lot about us and our lives. A parent’s relationship with a child is a very significant one, which can be very rewarding in the right circumstances. We all know the cliche about “if we have a baby it will fix this relationship” and similar.
The drive to reproduce seems like an evolutionary necessity. We wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for that. But that’s an instinct really, and not a rational thought-out thing.
Adoption is extremely important, but it is also the hard mode of becoming a parent. The only reason I even have a biological child is because my wife and I tried one more doctor after being a year or two into the crushing roller coaster of the adoption process, and even having a double adoption fall through.