I want to live!

- EvilKirk’s last words

Whatever else you want to say about EvilKirk, it’s pretty clear that he didn’t want to be merged back into the single Kirk. Despite this, there is no shortage of reasons why it was a good idea to merge the Kirks: the Enterprise needed its CO back, GoodKirk wanted to do it, and it seems possible that the strain of remaining split would have eventually killed EvilKirk anyways. However, the fact remains that EvilKirk did not consent to the procedure which ended his existence.

Clearly the circumstances here are quite different and there’s basically no argument to be made that allowing EvilKirk to continue to exist would benefit any involved party, EvilKirk included. But for the purposes of this comparison, the only fact that really matters is that EvilKirk was just as passionate about his desire to continue existing as Tuvix was.

Yet—and it’s obvious where I’m going with this—“Spock murdered EvilKirk” is not a meme.

So what gives? Did Spock murder EvilKirk or not? If yes, why does he get a pass while Janeway is condemned?

  • Equals@startrek.websiteM
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    1 year ago

    Yet—and it’s obvious where I’m going with this—“Spock murdered EvilKirk” is not a meme. …[W]hy does he get a pass while Janeway is condemned?

    I’m gonna cheat here a little bit. There are lots of things about the Tuvix debate that really are not about Tuvix; we’ve seen Tuvix elicit underlying opinions about everything from abortion to the trolley problem, and we’ve often seen thinly-veiled misogyny lurking beneath the surface as certain folks appear interested in finding any flaws in Captain Janeway they can.

    So, yes, somewhat trivially, I think that Spock does not get condemned in part because he enjoys the luxury of not being targeted by misogynists. I think it’s a small part, but surely a part.

    I think the reason there aren’t memes is because, well… “The Enemy Within” is an old episode, it never attracted attention through debate, and also it’s a gross episode where EvilKirk straight up attempts to rape Yeoman Rand, and then Spock makes a joke (! Spock! A joke!) about it at the end of the episode. I’m sure it’s an episode numerous folks have tried to forget. (I know I have.)

    So, in terms of using the episode as a barometer to evaluate our own reactions to the two situations, I think there are overriding contextual factors that drown out any insight we might gain.

    As an aside, I also think there is a pretty straightforward argument that EvilKirk (and GoodKirk, for that matter) was not mentally competent. He was, by definition, the remnants of an individual who had had a significant piece of their person torn away from them traumatically.

    I think there’s actually an odd but useful comparison to dementia here: dementia does cause some individuals to behave “out-of-character”, immorally, or just meanly. If there were a “transporter reintegration” equivalent to treating dementia, and the patient said, “No, I want to stay like I am”… then I think probably the patient’s wishes would be ignored.

    Part of the reason “Tuvix” is hard is because, at least superficially, Tuvix appears mentally competent, so it’s much harder to justify ignoring his wishes.

    (As a second aside, one thing that always surprises me about the Tuvix Discourse™ is how little attention is paid to Tuvix being… well, somewhere between an asshole and a creep. He is incredibly manipulative toward Kes, preying on both her feelings for Neelix as well as her mentoring relationship with Tuvok. Neelix of course always was a bit possessive and jealous, but he at least was written “with a good heart”; I felt like Tuvix took those same qualities, but added a Tuvok-esque cold calculation to it. In any case, to me there’s a mildly interesting parallel between these two episodes where there’s this tone-deafness to the way the writers treat the behavior of the “transporter accident individual.”)

  • khaosworks@startrek.websiteM
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    1 year ago

    Isn’t the main difference that neither could survive if they remained separated? They would both eventually die unless they were reintegrated.

    Whereas in Tuvix’s case, the merged being was in no danger of death and could have lived a long healthy life.

  • TeaHands@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I always got the impression that the Kirks were both destined to wither away and die if kept separate, but it’s been a while so I might be wrong there.

    There’s also the issue that EvilKirk was a danger to everyone else on the ship. You could make the argument that if he survived, he could have learned to control his behaviour, but I’m not sure that’s the case for a personality entirely made up of those negative traits.

    It’s definitely a moral grey area, whereas with the Tuvix situation it’s more black and white. There was no danger to anyone else, he was well-liked and a credit to the ship, there was basically no reason for Janeway to split him back apart other than “I want to”.

    • Guy Fleegman@startrek.websiteOP
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      1 year ago

      Janeway’s decision was far from arbitrary. She did it to save the lives of Tuvok and Neelix, who were unable to advocate for themselves at the time.

      • Shift_@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        YES!
        EXACTLY!

        Everyone wants to save Tuvix because they like him. But nobody wants to save Tuvok or Neelix. They didn’t consent to dying so Tuvix could live. If you agree Tuvix is a person, then you cannot disregard that so were Tuvok and Neelix. Where was their funeral? Does Tuvok’s family not get it’s husband and father back because the crew liked Tuvix better? The two people who’s opinion mattered the most couldn’t be consulted. If Tuvix is a person, his judgement on the matter is simply too biased as his sense of self preservation would interfere with objective decision-making.

        To save Tuvix was to murder Tuvok and Neelix.