I said basically the same the article says a couple of days ago and was pelted with a gazillion negative votes. Centrists are averse to learning from mistakes, otherwise they wouldn’t be centrists.

Yes, thank you for putting it better than me.

Especially Re: podcast hosts, I follow a couple of “progressive” podcasts and they showed their true colors very clearly when one day they were strongly shilling for Biden and admonishing any differing opinion. Then magically they changed tunes when the situation was inescapable. They came off as strongly disingenuous and spineless.

As I said in another comment, I don’t even think the Palestinian genocide is something the American people cares enough about. I can’t see how this single issue in isolation could have cost Harris the election, especially by such a margin. BUT, it informs how they think. And it shows. The Dems apparently thought that they could win the election by being as far right as they could get away with. It’s their failure for campaigning cowardly and saying always the safe thing that does well in focus groups. Every election they lose is a chance for the Overton Window to move to the right. They tried to capture votes from people from the right of them MUCH harder than from the left of them on almost every issue.

If a voter is already right leaning, especially in the USA, they won’t vote for Fascism Light, they will vote for Fascism Plus.

you’re under the belief that reaction to a single issue should matter

This is certainly not true. I understand the need for compromise but I also understand that there’s stuff one should not compromise about. Otherwise, what makes us different from the fascists if we’re willing to help kill an entire nation “on the other side of the globe” (as if distance makes their lives less valuable) if it serves us here?

I agree with you that voters have not engaged in the process and many failed to do the most basic of civil duties. But when it happens at such a scale something else is afoot. It was Harris’ election to lose and she did.

You seem to have made many false assumptions about me but still, genuinely, thanks for the reply.

This is the point I’m trying to make too. I don’t even think Americans care about Gaza enough to make such a large difference in votes as we’ve seen last night. I guess the scapegoating must start as soon as possible to avoid enacting any meaningful change in the status quo.

I see the Palestinian issue as a great proxy for inspecting the Democrat mindset even though it’s not itself an election winner. And as they say, they failed the vibe check horribly. It’s not a “single issue” if the mindset applies to every decision they make.

What belief, may I ask?

Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.

Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them

I don’t think this is a constructive way of looking at the situation. After all, being quiet about Netanyahu’s abuses wasn’t a winning strategy either. Besides, being scared of Israeli lobbying automatically makes you a bad leader.

Regular people don’t live reading obscure threads on Lemmy so I’m 100% sure that the effects of the comments posted by tankies here are negligible.

My point is that you can’t lose against the worst human being twice and keep blaming the electorate. If they want to lead, the dems have to stand for something instead of complaining about turnout or in general blaming anyone else but themselves. It was THEIR job to get out the vote.

Trump is a monumental POS but the dems prefer to cater to the people who voted for him instead of the people who want legitimate pro-working-class policies.

Honest question: Why blame the voters? Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?

The democrats are so impossibly spineless that they wait for polls and focus groups for their talking points instead of standing up for their principles (if they really exist).

Dems spent the entire campaign trying to compromise with and convince right wingers acting in bad faith instead of just working towards progressive policies. They once and again let the GOP set the tone for every conversation.

The Dem’s attitude towards the genocide in Gaza is just a piece of evidence that shows their way of thinking: the dog race and politicking is more important that doing the right thing.

So stop blaming the voters and take a deep look into your own values and principles because the nation being obliterated right now in the middle east and the people who stand for them even at great cost to themselves are definitely not to blame.

You could start by reading about the School of the Americas, Operation Condor and Operation Gladio. See how the USA treats its “friends”.

Read about cointelpro and see how it treats its citizens. Some tactics are still in use today.

Add to this one another map of past CIA-backed coups and despair.

His narrative is a bit wonky but the general idea is true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak

Trump’s presidency was so chaotic that it made us forget that the DNC Chair resigned mid campaign because of this scandal.

My argument would be that individual actions are useless or even harmful. Collective, smart action is required. This problem is bigger than any one of us but not bigger than every one of us.

Yes! Their positions and actions are suspiciously very demobilising.

No unity even in the most basic stuff. No willingness to hold a constructive conversation. Things have to be done in their way or you’re labeled an enemy. Doctrine above humanity. Incessant nitpicking.

How do they intend to build socialism if they can’t even have an honest, good faith conversation?

As if they would be there in the frontlines when shit hits the fan. It shows very clearly they don’t risk much (and lack the most basic level of empathy) if they really think Trump and Biden are the same. Ask our trans comrades. Or homeless people. Or journalists.

In abstention, they just found a way of feeling good about doing nothing at all. Voting is literally the least you could do and they won’t do even that.

We all are vast collections of harmonic oscillators.

Liberals tend to say that the system just needs a few tweaks here and there while the reality is that the entire thing is rotten to the core and the stuff they enjoy now in their “developed” countries was built upon centuries of exploitation of other people, which is still ongoing stronger than ever.

When confronted with these facts, some liberals act defensively and instead of learning and growing in their understanding, they start aligning with right wing thinking. That’s why the saying goes “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”.

Many people don’t feel in control of their futures. In general, people in the “global South” have way fewer opportunities to start with. It doesn’t matter how hard you work if you live in a dictatorship. Or if you never had a good breakfast before math in primary school. Of if half of your waking hours are spent commuting in dilapidated busses packed with people.

These are in reality the hardest working people; every waking hour can be challenge if you are poor.

Yeah, this trumps all the recent intense propaganda about the IDF being professional and meticulous.

Thing is, the game was rigged from the start.

Wealth redistribution is only resetting the board, not a change in the game.

Her talent is in marketing/making money through music. Artistically, she hasn’t risked going half a millimeter from the mainstream. Were she as talented as her (loud! Jesus, we already know you like her) fans think, she would be creating new forms of art unknown to humanity. She just found a group of people over the internet and a way to influence them to milk them for money with 27 million versions of the same album and merch.

It doesn’t hurt being ultra WASPy and the daughter of the super well connected, super wealthy vice president of Merrill Lynch who basically harassed other people and companies into giving TS a space.