I also think that the power creep started out with Gen4, as it had lots of legendaries and evos for older mons. (There’s a literal god there dammit.) However I feel like power creep is a symptom of a deeper issue in the series: it’s basically mass production, and for mass production you got a few cosmetic changes from gen to gen but almost no meaningful change in core gameplay. And eventually people like you, @sleepybisexual and me got tired of that “base” product.
@lvxferre I know there are perverse incentives for power creep for games with in-game monetization but even with MOBAs who produce less and have less combinatorial possibilities on moves/items can have power creep so I don’t think mass production alone does it. I’d reckon power creep is a demand side problem, people get more dopamine when something they use is overpowered. Also legendary power creep prolly started with Gen III Kyogre rain-boosted STAB Choice Specs 150 base power spread move.
I don’t think that mass production is doing it alone, but that it’s a factor. It’s what prevents GameFreak from changing the core gameplay of the game; and without meaningful changes to core gameplay, they need to attract players through other ways.
And one of those ways is making the mons of a newer gen stronger than the ones of the gen before. (Another is introducing “gimmick mechanics” that get forgotten in the next gen.)
@lvxferre Define meaningful changes to core gameplay and Gamefreak doesn’t seem to have perverse monetary incentives to power creep so I’m just guessing a more benign creative block here rather than willful. I don’t think people buy Pokemon games for the competitive esports aspects anyway even though I see a lot of changes in later gens clearly geared towards VGC gameplay.
@sleepybisexual Aside from what lvxferre said, there’s also Stealth Rock with very ineffective way of removing it because of ghost types, random 120 base power moves and the physical/special split essentially buffing the coverage of offensive pokemon (Gengars can actually use Ghost type moves). Essentially the gen that made dragons overpowered. I guess you can say these are all subtle. Gen 6 onwards just made it more blatant with gimmicks like mega-evolutions, z-moves and terrain.
Gen7 for me was… meh. I remember being extremely annoyed at the RotomDex telling me what to do, as if it didn’t allow me to explore properly. Perhaps because my nostalgia is geared towards the older games (I still play Emerald, to give you an idea.)
In your case I wouldn’t recommend trumpets and water Emerald then, as it’s exploration-heavy - there’s huge routes, and often what you want is in a specific place. You’ll probably have a great time with Gen 4 instead, specially Platinum.
They’re even more exploration-heavy than Emerald. Roughly, the earlier the game, the bigger the focus on exploration, as hardware limitations didn’t allow much storytelling.
Also, I recommend playing their remakes instead of the original games; the originals are extremely buggy and have huge balance issues. (For example, there’s a shore in Red/Blue that you can use to catch Safari Zone mons. And Psychic mons are crazy overpowered - the only Ghosts in the region are partially Poison, there’s a lot of other Poison types, and since Gen1 was before the special split they got huge offensive and defensive capabilities.)
…frankly, most stuff past gen V.
@lvxferre @sleepybisexual Gen IV was when the real power creep started to happen.
I also think that the power creep started out with Gen4, as it had lots of legendaries and evos for older mons. (There’s a literal god there dammit.) However I feel like power creep is a symptom of a deeper issue in the series: it’s basically mass production, and for mass production you got a few cosmetic changes from gen to gen but almost no meaningful change in core gameplay. And eventually people like you, @sleepybisexual and me got tired of that “base” product.
@lvxferre I know there are perverse incentives for power creep for games with in-game monetization but even with MOBAs who produce less and have less combinatorial possibilities on moves/items can have power creep so I don’t think mass production alone does it. I’d reckon power creep is a demand side problem, people get more dopamine when something they use is overpowered. Also legendary power creep prolly started with Gen III Kyogre rain-boosted STAB Choice Specs 150 base power spread move.
I don’t think that mass production is doing it alone, but that it’s a factor. It’s what prevents GameFreak from changing the core gameplay of the game; and without meaningful changes to core gameplay, they need to attract players through other ways.
And one of those ways is making the mons of a newer gen stronger than the ones of the gen before. (Another is introducing “gimmick mechanics” that get forgotten in the next gen.)
@lvxferre Define meaningful changes to core gameplay and Gamefreak doesn’t seem to have perverse monetary incentives to power creep so I’m just guessing a more benign creative block here rather than willful. I don’t think people buy Pokemon games for the competitive esports aspects anyway even though I see a lot of changes in later gens clearly geared towards VGC gameplay.
I know gen 8 pokemon are too strong but how was gen 4 guilty?
@sleepybisexual Aside from what lvxferre said, there’s also Stealth Rock with very ineffective way of removing it because of ghost types, random 120 base power moves and the physical/special split essentially buffing the coverage of offensive pokemon (Gengars can actually use Ghost type moves). Essentially the gen that made dragons overpowered. I guess you can say these are all subtle. Gen 6 onwards just made it more blatant with gimmicks like mega-evolutions, z-moves and terrain.
Yup, and also the legendaries got a lot stronger too.
Gen7 was nice tho it could just be nostalgia on my end.
The ultra gen 7 sucked tho
Internet needed to beat the game was an awful fucking idea
Gen7 for me was… meh. I remember being extremely annoyed at the RotomDex telling me what to do, as if it didn’t allow me to explore properly. Perhaps because my nostalgia is geared towards the older games (I still play Emerald, to give you an idea.)
I should play some of the older games. I’m OK at battles but exploration is an issue, what older games aren’t tm reliant for exploration?
In your case I wouldn’t recommend
trumpets and waterEmerald then, as it’s exploration-heavy - there’s huge routes, and often what you want is in a specific place. You’ll probably have a great time with Gen 4 instead, specially Platinum.K, I’ll start with that.
What about gen 1 and 2 ?
They’re even more exploration-heavy than Emerald. Roughly, the earlier the game, the bigger the focus on exploration, as hardware limitations didn’t allow much storytelling.
Also, I recommend playing their remakes instead of the original games; the originals are extremely buggy and have huge balance issues. (For example, there’s a shore in Red/Blue that you can use to catch Safari Zone mons. And Psychic mons are crazy overpowered - the only Ghosts in the region are partially Poison, there’s a lot of other Poison types, and since Gen1 was before the special split they got huge offensive and defensive capabilities.)
So. Start on backwards chronological order?
Will play gen4 first
Yup!