Not just the Galaxy S5, go open GSMArena’s phone finder and filter the results by form factor to “bar”, IP certificate to IPx7 and IPx8, and finally the battery to removable, 97 phones if you gonna include non-Android phones
And also one little thing, can you all please stop using the wrong word, it is water resistance not waterproof
For years, Apple have been locking down parts to their phones. In this case with batteries, you get a message saying that your battery needs to be serviced, even if you are using a genuine Apple battery from another phone.
I’m not sure if I’ve missed other manufacturers doing this with batteries, the only other one I remember was OnePlus encrypting the battery in their new OnePlus pad. It’s unfortunate that some manufacturers see what Apple have been doing, then followed in their footsteps with pairing screens - on some phones you can’t use the fingerprint scanner if you have swapped the screen, it’s ridiculous.
The phone I use from oppo won’t complain if I were to replace parts in it. Though given that oppo and oneplus are owned by the same company, I wouldn’t be surprised if that changes soon.
If you use genuine parts and tools, you can replace those parts yourself without issues (Apple Repair Kit).
Having worked at an Apple Store I might be biased but can also give you another perspective:
Often, people would enter the store…
complaining that their phone didn’t work although they just had it fixed. Most of the time, they went to some cheapo repair store where they got an even cheaper parts installed which caused the problem. Locking parts to your phone and only allowing replacement in an authorized store / through Apples own repair programs does prevent that.
having issues accessing their phones after something happened. They only then realize that most of their lives is on that phone and that it would be advisable to keep it secure and to keep (encrypted) backups of their photos and other files. Making the replacement of TouchID sensors harder (again, only authorized repair shops, authentic parts) helps improve their security. You can pay with a phone, you have all your contact’s infos on there, all your personal and maybe professional pictures and mails, …
People expect quality from Apple and don’t understand what could happen when they don’t use genuine parts. The fingerprint sensor could be faulty / easier to trick / manipulated. What then? Whom would they blame? At first Apple. And then the go angry to the next Apple Store where the reps have to explain everything to them…
The problem is that the user base is more varied and much bigger then, let’s say, Oppo‘s. When you compare iPhone sales to the numbers of an other single smartph
why Apple might choose this way. They sell many more phones and have to give support to many more phones than any other competitor. And they actually do give support. Also, their user base expects higher quality and better safeguards for their data from Apple then from other manufacturers.
Sorry for keeping it short and not addressing every one of your points. It would take me too long and I have things to do.
But it boils down to the following: Apple-„dislikers“ mostly think the worst of every decision Apple makes. Think the company is only out for the money. In reality, that’s only partially true. Apple thinks a lot about the costumer. For example, I was never asked to upsell a costumer but give them advice based on their needs. If this was, in the end, to go to the next electronics store and buy an android phone that was fine as well. As long as the costumer feels that Apple has their best interest at heart this was fine.
Apple does think about the costumer, but making money (in the long term) is always an afterthought. So these restrictions you mentioned do benefit most of Apples consumers, as they don’t want to check if the replacement parts are safe to use from a security and / or safety standpoint. They expect them to work. Period.
And that’s the last thing I’m going to mention: Apple devices work longer than most android devices. That’s build quality for one (yes, iPhones also have their problems. If you look at those problems compared to the amount of phones sold you’ll see that those problems are small compared to the competition). Apple has also been providing 4-5 years of Softwareupdates (to the latest OS and also security updates to older OSes if you stayed on them). Android manufacturers had to be forced by (EU) law to provide 3 years. And still not even to the latest OS version.
As the EU is mainly looking to improve the ecological footprint, they and most critics don’t really consider that Apple has been actively working on recycling their products for many years now. Apple really does want to make an ecological impact. The build quality and software support make their devices great hand-me-downs. Their recycling and efforts do the rest.
Please be advices that we talk about phones right now. Repairability and software support of macs is a completely different case. And as I said before, of course making money is important for Apple and often a nice side effect. I would argue, though, that it’s not always the main driving force behind Hardware / repairability decisions (and I also rejoice that my next iPhone will have USB-C ;-)).
If you use genuine parts and tools, you can replace those parts yourself without issues (Apple Repair Kit).
There are a few problems with Apple’s third party repair kits though; you still have to go through to Apple’s support to get the parts paired/calibrated to the phone. If you look at Google’s pixel repair program, the screen is paired to the phone, but they provide the software to calibrate the fingerprint reader - no need to go through a text chat for possibly hours just to pair the parts back to the phone.
The good thing about the program is that some small parts can be cheaper than getting them from a third party, but on the flip side, parts like screens and batteries are expensive. It would be cheaper to get Apple to repair the device than to do it yourself through the program. It just feels off to me.
Documentation is very good and detailed at least!
Having worked at an Apple Store I might be biased
To be fair I’m quite biased as well, having had bad experiences with multiple apple products :p
complaining that their phone didn’t work although they just had it fixed.
I completely understand first hand why this is could be a problem. My brother’s iPhone 6 had a dying battery and a cracked screen, there was a new repair shop that had opened up which was cheaper than the repair shop we normally go to. They replaced both the screen and the battery, great! Not even a year later and the battery had severely degraded and the screen just stopped responding to touch.
He got a new phone and I decided to try repairing it myself. Turns out this new repair shop was incredibly incompetent at repairing the phone - double sided tape to hold the battery down, missing screws, the rubber ring around the home button was missing, and the screen bracket was bent so it didn’t clip in on one side of the phone. Fixed it up - mostly - the screen still doesn’t clip in as I used the same bracket from before.
Though it never happened at any of the other repair shops, just the cheapest one. is it really a good idea to lock out all repair because the minority of shops are going to mess it up?
Locking parts to your phone and only allowing replacement in an authorized store / through Apples own repair programs does prevent that.
Problems arise for me because:
There isn’t a nearby Apple store, I am not driving to the other side of the country just to get a screen replacement
There is an authorised repair store in a nearby city, but they usually cost more than going straight to apple. As far as I am aware, they are only allowed to swap in apple’s parts rather than repairing what’s broken (e.g. cracked glass on the screen where everything else still works fine)
Usually the repair stores take a few hours at most, where as mailing my phone to Apple can take weeks before I can get it back.
Apple’s repair program costs more than going straight to apple, there’s also a chance that a user can mess it up, is it apples responsibility to fix a botched repair?
I can buy refurbished screens online, more expensive than what I’d find on AliExpress but everything on the screen is still up to Apple’s quality - I can’t swap it in though without losing auto-brightness and true tone. Batteries from reputable manufacturers are also up to apple’s standards, but I can’t swap it in without losing the battery health indicator. Even with genuine, or high quality parts, I cannot replace them without losing some sort of functionality.
Making the replacement of TouchID sensors harder (again, only authorized repair shops, authentic parts) helps improve their security.
As far as I am aware, Apple doesn’t offer touch ID sensors through their repair program (although it’s hard to confirm that without an iPhone serial number). I guess I could somewhat understand that, but you used to be able to replace the touch ID sensor with a normal home button. You would still have access to your data, for payments, you could use contactless on the card as that existed far before apple pay. That was until the iPhone 7 came around and added that touch capacitive home button, once that dies, you have to go to Apple to get it replaced. It’s apple’s design that prevents people from accessing their data, not third party repair.
What then? Whom would they blame? At first Apple. And then the go angry to the next Apple Store where the reps have to explain everything to them…
That’s just the way people act unfortunately, there was a video by Louis Rossmann where he said people wouldn’t be angry with him if he told them that their machine couldn’t be fixed within a couple days of recieving it. If he had waited about two weeks, then told them about the issue, the damage was his fault and that the machine is broken because of him. It’s unfair but it’s the reality we are in unfortunately.
Also, their user base expects higher quality and better safeguards for their data from Apple then from other manufacturers.
I don’t expect much for Apple in terms of safeguarding data given that I was able to unlock my mum’s phone with face ID. my face wasn’t registered, I got in fairly easily without knowing her password. This was fixed by redoing the face ID recognition thing. I don’t think it’s a secure way to lock a phone.
Of course other manufacturers have messed it up too, but I never really thought face ID was a good idea anyways.
Giving your device to apple, or an authorised repair store, also doesn’t guarantee that your data will remain private, as seen by this contracted repair. Yes, small chance that it could happen, but giving a device to apple doesn’t guarantee your data’s safety.
Apple devices work longer than most android devices.
I wouldn’t really say work longer, I still have a Samsung galaxy S2 somewhere that still turns on and functions. Though Apple devices are definitely supported for a longer period of time compared to the competition. Build quality I would probably question, though my last iPhone was an iPhone 6 - a slightly bent iPhone 6.
Glass backs on the newer phones are even more questionable to me, after seeing many people who have cracked the backs of their phones - you could cut your hand if you weren’t using a case.
Android phones on OS’ as old as Android 6 can still use most of the apps on the play store. While the device is more vulnerable to attacks, it’s still usable if necessary. Although that doesn’t really excuse manufacturers dropping support after a few years. You can flash modern android versions like 13 to an old S2 for example, it’s not going to run well but it’s possible!
Repairability and software support of macs is a completely different case.
I had a Mac kill itself after 4 years of use, the authorised repair shop in the other city took two weeks to get it repaired and I wasn’t allowed to keep my data. It was an expensive repair too. I was lucky that everything important was backed up on a usb drive I had.
I’ll suck Apple’s dick for one thing—they’re the last big (…biggest) company that actually cares about privacy. Siri might suck compared to any other AI assistant, but she’s not telling Apple that you’re doing a fat rail off your iPhone.
Yea it’s technically made for bussiness to give to their employees but you can still buy it for personal use. Specs ain’t great tho, but the point is that it is possible.
Yea its like how schools pay millions of dollars for computers only for them to be laggy af. Some organizations just don’t care as long as it’s usable to do whatever the organization needs it to do. It’s usually cheaper for an organization to buy 500 of these since they are probably cheaper in bulk, and its easier to manage. An organization could probably get a bulk purchase deal on flagships, but its gonna be more expensive, and they dont wanna spend even slightly more than they had to, they just want cheap stuff that works, even very slowly. If a manufacturer wanted to, they could spend production money to making these flagship, but why do that when you can seal batteries and make their devices die quicker and sell more phones?
You can’t actually make them as thin as they are now, regardles what OS they use under the hood, if the battery has to be removable. Yeah, you can still maintain the same specs, but at the cost of being 3, 4mm thicker 🤷.
Meh, laws that benefit some people are often gonna to negatively impact others, like corporations, or people who like their phone’s “aesthetic”. You can’t please everyone. The EU parliament voted for this so I assume people want this. If they don’t want it, they could always make another vote to repeal it later on.
I think the EU doesn’t actually take into account much of what the people think or say… I think they’re just mature enough as polititians and human beings to reaize that, yes, we do have to make a living, one way or another, but this thing is just wrong. We gotta make it right.
I saw an interview once with a german female polititian that switched office and was now in a lower ranking, underpaid and much more demanding office. The journalist asked her why did she want to switch (it was by her choice), to which she replied that she wanted to prove herself as being able to do this as well, and also have this job on her resime, which would be very good, plus she gets to be in a much more demanding environment, which is something she always wanted to see if she could handle well.
It’s the logic to how most of these polititians see themselves and the work they do. They see themselves as servants to the people and their jobs just as any other job, they just want to get better at doing different things regarding their qualifications. This is the main diference, I think, not just do something for status or money, but actually progress in your knowledge and skills.
Not just the Galaxy S5, go open GSMArena’s phone finder and filter the results by form factor to “bar”, IP certificate to IPx7 and IPx8, and finally the battery to removable, 97 phones if you gonna include non-Android phones
“We CaNnOt mAkE tHeM wAtErProOf.”
Galaxy S5 starts laughing
Not just the Galaxy S5, go open GSMArena’s phone finder and filter the results by form factor to “bar”, IP certificate to IPx7 and IPx8, and finally the battery to removable, 97 phones if you gonna include non-Android phones
And also one little thing, can you all please stop using the wrong word, it is water resistance not waterproof
Waterproof devices are excluded from having to have replaceable batteries. Just FYI
Also, newer android phones don’t have replaceable batteries either. So why always bitch about just Apple?
Only devices which are made for “underwater use as their main purpose”. Smartphones do not qualify.
Ahh, yes, true, under a new, upcoming regulation. Should read more news. ;-) thanks for painting that out!
Wow, a sincere, thankful reply. This place is indeed a lot better than reddit, isn’t it? I’ll have to get used to this type of internet
Me too, I was like “huh, someone actually thanked me and wanted to have a meaninful conversation 🤨”. I was baffled as well, but pleasantly surprised.
I could pm you death threats if you like?
Don’t we all. But yeah the Conversation/Discussion Culture here on lemmy is way mature and better.
Agreed 👍.
Sure, I’ll let my wife reply, that should be way more interesting for both of us 😁.
For years, Apple have been locking down parts to their phones. In this case with batteries, you get a message saying that your battery needs to be serviced, even if you are using a genuine Apple battery from another phone.
Batteries, cameras, screens and sensors are locked down on newer iPhones. Replacing them will remove some of the phones functionality.
I’m not sure if I’ve missed other manufacturers doing this with batteries, the only other one I remember was OnePlus encrypting the battery in their new OnePlus pad. It’s unfortunate that some manufacturers see what Apple have been doing, then followed in their footsteps with pairing screens - on some phones you can’t use the fingerprint scanner if you have swapped the screen, it’s ridiculous.
The phone I use from oppo won’t complain if I were to replace parts in it. Though given that oppo and oneplus are owned by the same company, I wouldn’t be surprised if that changes soon.
If you use genuine parts and tools, you can replace those parts yourself without issues (Apple Repair Kit).
Having worked at an Apple Store I might be biased but can also give you another perspective:
Often, people would enter the store…
complaining that their phone didn’t work although they just had it fixed. Most of the time, they went to some cheapo repair store where they got an even cheaper parts installed which caused the problem. Locking parts to your phone and only allowing replacement in an authorized store / through Apples own repair programs does prevent that.
having issues accessing their phones after something happened. They only then realize that most of their lives is on that phone and that it would be advisable to keep it secure and to keep (encrypted) backups of their photos and other files. Making the replacement of TouchID sensors harder (again, only authorized repair shops, authentic parts) helps improve their security. You can pay with a phone, you have all your contact’s infos on there, all your personal and maybe professional pictures and mails, …
People expect quality from Apple and don’t understand what could happen when they don’t use genuine parts. The fingerprint sensor could be faulty / easier to trick / manipulated. What then? Whom would they blame? At first Apple. And then the go angry to the next Apple Store where the reps have to explain everything to them…
The problem is that the user base is more varied and much bigger then, let’s say, Oppo‘s. When you compare iPhone sales to the numbers of an other single smartph
why Apple might choose this way. They sell many more phones and have to give support to many more phones than any other competitor. And they actually do give support. Also, their user base expects higher quality and better safeguards for their data from Apple then from other manufacturers.
Sorry for keeping it short and not addressing every one of your points. It would take me too long and I have things to do.
But it boils down to the following: Apple-„dislikers“ mostly think the worst of every decision Apple makes. Think the company is only out for the money. In reality, that’s only partially true. Apple thinks a lot about the costumer. For example, I was never asked to upsell a costumer but give them advice based on their needs. If this was, in the end, to go to the next electronics store and buy an android phone that was fine as well. As long as the costumer feels that Apple has their best interest at heart this was fine.
Apple does think about the costumer, but making money (in the long term) is always an afterthought. So these restrictions you mentioned do benefit most of Apples consumers, as they don’t want to check if the replacement parts are safe to use from a security and / or safety standpoint. They expect them to work. Period.
And that’s the last thing I’m going to mention: Apple devices work longer than most android devices. That’s build quality for one (yes, iPhones also have their problems. If you look at those problems compared to the amount of phones sold you’ll see that those problems are small compared to the competition). Apple has also been providing 4-5 years of Softwareupdates (to the latest OS and also security updates to older OSes if you stayed on them). Android manufacturers had to be forced by (EU) law to provide 3 years. And still not even to the latest OS version.
As the EU is mainly looking to improve the ecological footprint, they and most critics don’t really consider that Apple has been actively working on recycling their products for many years now. Apple really does want to make an ecological impact. The build quality and software support make their devices great hand-me-downs. Their recycling and efforts do the rest.
Please be advices that we talk about phones right now. Repairability and software support of macs is a completely different case. And as I said before, of course making money is important for Apple and often a nice side effect. I would argue, though, that it’s not always the main driving force behind Hardware / repairability decisions (and I also rejoice that my next iPhone will have USB-C ;-)).
There are a few problems with Apple’s third party repair kits though; you still have to go through to Apple’s support to get the parts paired/calibrated to the phone. If you look at Google’s pixel repair program, the screen is paired to the phone, but they provide the software to calibrate the fingerprint reader - no need to go through a text chat for possibly hours just to pair the parts back to the phone.
The good thing about the program is that some small parts can be cheaper than getting them from a third party, but on the flip side, parts like screens and batteries are expensive. It would be cheaper to get Apple to repair the device than to do it yourself through the program. It just feels off to me.
Documentation is very good and detailed at least!
To be fair I’m quite biased as well, having had bad experiences with multiple apple products :p
I completely understand first hand why this is could be a problem. My brother’s iPhone 6 had a dying battery and a cracked screen, there was a new repair shop that had opened up which was cheaper than the repair shop we normally go to. They replaced both the screen and the battery, great! Not even a year later and the battery had severely degraded and the screen just stopped responding to touch.
He got a new phone and I decided to try repairing it myself. Turns out this new repair shop was incredibly incompetent at repairing the phone - double sided tape to hold the battery down, missing screws, the rubber ring around the home button was missing, and the screen bracket was bent so it didn’t clip in on one side of the phone. Fixed it up - mostly - the screen still doesn’t clip in as I used the same bracket from before.
Though it never happened at any of the other repair shops, just the cheapest one. is it really a good idea to lock out all repair because the minority of shops are going to mess it up?
Problems arise for me because:
I can buy refurbished screens online, more expensive than what I’d find on AliExpress but everything on the screen is still up to Apple’s quality - I can’t swap it in though without losing auto-brightness and true tone. Batteries from reputable manufacturers are also up to apple’s standards, but I can’t swap it in without losing the battery health indicator. Even with genuine, or high quality parts, I cannot replace them without losing some sort of functionality.
As far as I am aware, Apple doesn’t offer touch ID sensors through their repair program (although it’s hard to confirm that without an iPhone serial number). I guess I could somewhat understand that, but you used to be able to replace the touch ID sensor with a normal home button. You would still have access to your data, for payments, you could use contactless on the card as that existed far before apple pay. That was until the iPhone 7 came around and added that touch capacitive home button, once that dies, you have to go to Apple to get it replaced. It’s apple’s design that prevents people from accessing their data, not third party repair.
Besides, the FTC found very little evidence to justify manufacturers reasonings for restricting repair: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/reports/nixing-fix-ftc-report-congress-repair-restrictions/nixing_the_fix_report_final_5521_630pm-508_002.pdf
That’s just the way people act unfortunately, there was a video by Louis Rossmann where he said people wouldn’t be angry with him if he told them that their machine couldn’t be fixed within a couple days of recieving it. If he had waited about two weeks, then told them about the issue, the damage was his fault and that the machine is broken because of him. It’s unfair but it’s the reality we are in unfortunately.
I don’t expect much for Apple in terms of safeguarding data given that I was able to unlock my mum’s phone with face ID. my face wasn’t registered, I got in fairly easily without knowing her password. This was fixed by redoing the face ID recognition thing. I don’t think it’s a secure way to lock a phone.
Of course other manufacturers have messed it up too, but I never really thought face ID was a good idea anyways.
Giving your device to apple, or an authorised repair store, also doesn’t guarantee that your data will remain private, as seen by this contracted repair. Yes, small chance that it could happen, but giving a device to apple doesn’t guarantee your data’s safety.
I wouldn’t really say work longer, I still have a Samsung galaxy S2 somewhere that still turns on and functions. Though Apple devices are definitely supported for a longer period of time compared to the competition. Build quality I would probably question, though my last iPhone was an iPhone 6 - a slightly bent iPhone 6. Glass backs on the newer phones are even more questionable to me, after seeing many people who have cracked the backs of their phones - you could cut your hand if you weren’t using a case.
Android phones on OS’ as old as Android 6 can still use most of the apps on the play store. While the device is more vulnerable to attacks, it’s still usable if necessary. Although that doesn’t really excuse manufacturers dropping support after a few years. You can flash modern android versions like 13 to an old S2 for example, it’s not going to run well but it’s possible!
I had a Mac kill itself after 4 years of use, the authorised repair shop in the other city took two weeks to get it repaired and I wasn’t allowed to keep my data. It was an expensive repair too. I was lucky that everything important was backed up on a usb drive I had.
I would be happy to buy another Apple product if they stopped this nonsense of blocking third party repair, unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be happening any time soon.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/SQbVuhwwd4s
https://piped.video/RIFQC8iA65k
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Go watch Louis Rossman, he shoots down almost all of your Apple propaganda, eh ment arguments.
Oh please, Apple doesn’t give a shit about their customers nor does any other major corporation for that matter. Only money matters.
I’ll suck Apple’s dick for one thing—they’re the last big (…biggest) company that actually cares about privacy. Siri might suck compared to any other AI assistant, but she’s not telling Apple that you’re doing a fat rail off your iPhone.
That’s unfortunately not true, yes you can block tracking from third party apps, but you can’t stop Apple from collecting your data themselves
Again, they dont care about privacy in any other way than the want your data for themselves. Are you really that naive?
gb2reddit
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/K2WhU77ihw8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I already said this in another comment but Samsung STILL makes them! https://www.samsung.com/us/business/mobile/phones/galaxy-xcover-pro/
Yea it’s technically made for bussiness to give to their employees but you can still buy it for personal use. Specs ain’t great tho, but the point is that it is possible.
My work gave me one of these. Worst phone I’ve ever used.
Yea its like how schools pay millions of dollars for computers only for them to be laggy af. Some organizations just don’t care as long as it’s usable to do whatever the organization needs it to do. It’s usually cheaper for an organization to buy 500 of these since they are probably cheaper in bulk, and its easier to manage. An organization could probably get a bulk purchase deal on flagships, but its gonna be more expensive, and they dont wanna spend even slightly more than they had to, they just want cheap stuff that works, even very slowly. If a manufacturer wanted to, they could spend production money to making these flagship, but why do that when you can seal batteries and make their devices die quicker and sell more phones?
You can’t actually make them as thin as they are now, regardles what OS they use under the hood, if the battery has to be removable. Yeah, you can still maintain the same specs, but at the cost of being 3, 4mm thicker 🤷.
Meh, laws that benefit some people are often gonna to negatively impact others, like corporations, or people who like their phone’s “aesthetic”. You can’t please everyone. The EU parliament voted for this so I assume people want this. If they don’t want it, they could always make another vote to repeal it later on.
I think the EU doesn’t actually take into account much of what the people think or say… I think they’re just mature enough as polititians and human beings to reaize that, yes, we do have to make a living, one way or another, but this thing is just wrong. We gotta make it right.
I saw an interview once with a german female polititian that switched office and was now in a lower ranking, underpaid and much more demanding office. The journalist asked her why did she want to switch (it was by her choice), to which she replied that she wanted to prove herself as being able to do this as well, and also have this job on her resime, which would be very good, plus she gets to be in a much more demanding environment, which is something she always wanted to see if she could handle well.
It’s the logic to how most of these polititians see themselves and the work they do. They see themselves as servants to the people and their jobs just as any other job, they just want to get better at doing different things regarding their qualifications. This is the main diference, I think, not just do something for status or money, but actually progress in your knowledge and skills.
Nokia 5210 wants to have a word with you.
That phone would literally survive fat man & little boy combined!
And not replaceable with tools. You could do it in about two seconds.
Are you implying that humans aren’t tools?
You mean fools?
Some are
Not just the Galaxy S5, go open GSMArena’s phone finder and filter the results by form factor to “bar”, IP certificate to IPx7 and IPx8, and finally the battery to removable, 97 phones if you gonna include non-Android phones