• Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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      1 year ago

      Oh I’m sure in the ToS it mentions that we don’t own anything and they have the right to cut access whenever they want for any reason and that you can’t sue them for it

      • Pretzel@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I’m not a lawyer, but I vaguely remember hearing that Terms of Service can’t protect a company from everything. I seriously doubt a company could get away with that when it was brought to court.

            • TauZero
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              1 year ago

              Don’t worry, they got it covered:

              for any claim related to these Terms of Sale or our Products … you may invoke binding arbitration by filing a separate Demand for Arbitration. … © either party may bring a claim in small claims court in lieu of arbitration; … (i) claims must be brought in the parties’ individual capacity, and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative proceeding. You hereby agree that for any dispute or claim that is less than $10,000 USD, you waive any right to a trial (by judge or jury), you waive any right to participate as a member of a class in a class action or similar proceeding.

              • XTornado@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                If I am reading this correctly which probably I am not, 10k is very little for a class action so most wouldn’t be covered at all by this restriction, it seems like a way to not have lawyers costs for very small class actions, but big ones would be “allowed” That again… I am probably misreading it, I am not a lawyer.

                • TauZero
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                  1 year ago

                  You are right, you are misreading it 😎. The $10,000 is for your personal claims, not the total class action value. Moreover, class action is prohibited twice here. The first clause:

                  claims must be brought in the parties’ individual capacity, and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative proceeding

                  Has not dollar limit. The language here is extremely confusing because of the double repetition. I can’t even tell if the arbitration is “binding” or not. I’ll assume that it is, based on the legal principle “exception that proves the rule” combined with clause 13.2 c). Here’s my not-a-lawyer flowchart interpretation consistent with every clause:

                  • if less than $10,000 in claims (99%+ of accounts), then:
                    1. must file Notice of Dispute
                    2. then if reject settlement offer, may file Demand for Arbitration OR file in small claims court
                    3. BUT you “waive any right to a trial by judge or jury”, and a court is presided by a judge, so… no small claims court for you!
                      (Any actual lawyer feel free to correct me in case a small claims court trial doesn’t count as a trial by a judge)
                  • if more than $10,000 in claims (someone who somehow bought hundreds of ubisoft games?), then:
                    1. may file Notice of Dispute or skip it
                    2. then may file Demand for Arbitration OR file in small claims court
                    3. BUT small claims court limit is typically $5000-$10000, so… no small claims court for you!
                    4. UNLESS you live in one of 8 states with a higher limit, and have a claim of exactly between $10000 and $15000
                  • in NO CASE may you be part of class action

                  Also, under clause 13.3 any legal action must be adjudicated in the courts of the State of California. I don’t know if that includes small claims courts, or if there is some legal tradition that small claims can always be filed in state of residence of the consumer. California has a $10k small claims limit, so if there is no such tradition, to me it appears there are NO situations where you can file any court case, big or small, consistent with these rules.

          • Pretzel@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Of course, but OP brought up that they couldn’t be sued. I was just pointing out that if someone was willing to test it, I bet they could come out on top.

      • Goronmon@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        If it wasn’t in the terms and they deleted your account, what would you do? And would that action be different than if account deletion was outlined in a terms agreement?

      • TauZero
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        1 year ago

        Yep

        Ubisoft reserves the right to terminate Ubisoft+ or any of the Ubisoft+ Services, at any time and for any reason, with at least thirty (30) day notice to you.

        And yep:

        you waive any right to a trial (by judge or jury), you waive any right to participate as a member of a class in a class action or similar proceeding

        • XTornado@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Let’s clarify that althought they probably have a similar thing somewhere, that one it’s in reference to Ubisoft+, their subscription service.

          • TauZero
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            1 year ago

            I’m sorry I’m not familiar with all the bullshit marketing names the companies use for their products. If you buy a game, and it goes into your Ubisoft account, and they delete your account - you still have the game, it’s just a useless brick because of the DRM, but all the bytes are still there. Regardless, the same provision is on the other ToS page as well:

            These Terms may be terminated or suspended at any time, without notice, for any reason

    • Mercival@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      I doubt it would tbh. It’s more or less equivalent to Nintendo shutting down the eshop, or an MMO terminating its online service.

      You do not own digital games, you own a license to use a service that may or may not be provided to you.

      • WindyRebel@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Hmm.

        Pretty sure you don’t own ANY games anymore, unless you fully pirate them. The physical discs aren’t big enough to have the full game and really contain the license to play, which is why downloads and updates are prevalent before you get to play on most systems.

        Is this correct or have I read incorrectly online?

        If I’m correct, then my point is really that if players let this stand then a company can do anything to any game you’ve “bought”.

        • Mercival@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Depends. Some console games contain the entirety of the game. However oftentimes they still might require a system update to play, which won’t be available forever.

          So yeah, you don’t really own anything.

        • Kaldo@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Pretty sure you don’t own ANY games anymore, unless you fully pirate them

          Or if you buy them on GOG