WOW the number of people in this thread immediately jumping to the accusers being “false” and deserving jail. Because no actual sexual predator ever got away with it in court…
(Sex crimes are extraordinarily difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because the actions are taken in private without a lot of physical evidence. Which sexual predators rely on to get away with their crimes, by the way.)
Perhaps we should review the sheer volume of young men from all over the US & UK reporting that Spacey was at best inappropriate with them. One of the youngest being 14 years old:
Indeed. In a thread a couple of days back on a different (though related) subject I was accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence and the beyond-reasonable-doubt standards that need to be overcome when accusations like this are slung. But it works the same in the other direction too - we can’t assume that an accuser is guilty of fraud or libel or filing false reports or whatever just because they failed to prove their case.
It would not be good for justice if these situations ended up being “now that the accusation has been made someone is going to go to jail, either the accused or the accuser.” The Thunderdome is not a good model to emulate.
accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence
Good thing to insist on, but be prudent. Keep in mind that, at least on reddit, there’s a tendency for every thread about rape to become a thread about false accusations. I wasn’t there, but in general, sometimes people object not to the presumption of innocence but to people bringing it up.
Yeah this whole thing isn’t simple. Even if he’s cleared of charges, these allegations are old and that makes them hard to prove or disprove.
Further, the quantity is concerning. Maybe he’s just prolifically sexual but my gut can’t really get passed how many accusations there are over such a long span of time. Even if innocent, still creepy is my opinion.
In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn’t mean they’re innocent.
Don’t forget the flip-side of that - the prisons are full of poor people who do not deserve to be there. It’s almost as if the system was designed to be like this…
Also, being a multimillionaire puts a target on your back. I’ll never forget the story about a man who already had a couple of million winning a huge lottery and how lawsuits, among other ever worse things, destroyed his life.
And also not admissible in a criminal court. That’s part of the problem. If you look at the big picture, it’s obvious he did it, but it’s not as easy to prove it in criminal court.
Is it really obvious that he did something, or is it obvious that he’s another gay man being attacked for daring to publicly admit that he’s gay? Sure there’s a lot of allegations, but many of them were dropped by the accusers, and as the article points out there was a huge rush of “me too” allegations brought out against many people at the same time because it was the trending get-rich-quick scheme. Even in Spacey’s case, why did most of these allegations not come out until he admitted he was gay?
IMHO if Spacey is actually guilty of these crimes, he’s going to be blackballed by all the studios and won’t ever be seen on the screen again. Although the courts didn’t prove him guilty, the studios know who is doing what, and in today’s market any further allegations will cost them money.
Even in Spacey’s case, why did most of these allegations not come out until he admitted he was gay?
I think it went the other way around, didn’t it? At least the first accusations came out, and he used the occasion to say “I didn’t do that! But now that I’m talking about this stuff, by the way I’m gay.”
It wasn’t a great look, because it came across that he tried to deflect the accusations by coming out as gay. But the other accusations were just as you said, a lot of “me too” after the first ones.
True enough, and he caught hell for the timing of that announcement. There’s also the issue of there just being such a different culture of what’s “acceptable” in Hollywood. I think it’s great that it finally came to light and those activities were at least tempered somewhat, but I also remember reading a lot of claims a decade ago and just thinking to myself that this is something you’re claiming ‘everyone’ in Hollywood is doing, but you chose to specifically target this one actor? The “me too” train was real, and a lot of people were going after big name actors, so I got burnt out on the whole thing and just stopped paying any attention to it.
A depressing number of victims of child sexual assault commit suicide, and thus their testimony cannot be used by the prosecution. For example, in Australia, the case of George Pell.
I refuse to believe you’re actually this stupid. There’s a universe of difference between “it didn’t happen” and “it couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court” and you know there is.
Unless you really think OJ didn’t murder his wife either
I refuse to believe you’re actually this stupid. You’re throwing these statements as if you have first hand experience of knowing these things happened. Like were you there in person when Spacey was assaulting these people or were you a witness when OJ killed his wife? You don’t wanna believe the witnesses, you don’t wanna believe the jury, you don’t don’t wanna believe in the legal systems (cops/courts and whatever have you). But you believe in some people accusing someone of something. EVEN if they cleared themselves of these accusations.
Are you actually this ignorant to not know that all people are all not down to earth and sometimes people can and do crazy shit. Why do you think there’s zero percent chance that these people were bad, but Kevin Spacey is 100 percent bad without a shadow of a doubt for seemingly just being rich?
WOW the number of people in this thread immediately jumping to the accusers being “false” and deserving jail. Because no actual sexual predator ever got away with it in court…
(Sex crimes are extraordinarily difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because the actions are taken in private without a lot of physical evidence. Which sexual predators rely on to get away with their crimes, by the way.)
Perhaps we should review the sheer volume of young men from all over the US & UK reporting that Spacey was at best inappropriate with them. One of the youngest being 14 years old:
https://people.com/tv/kevin-spacey-controversy-timeline/
And just in case some of us need a refresher course, the rate of false rape accusations is low:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21164210/
And the rate of sexual assault is high:
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html
Indeed. In a thread a couple of days back on a different (though related) subject I was accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence and the beyond-reasonable-doubt standards that need to be overcome when accusations like this are slung. But it works the same in the other direction too - we can’t assume that an accuser is guilty of fraud or libel or filing false reports or whatever just because they failed to prove their case.
It would not be good for justice if these situations ended up being “now that the accusation has been made someone is going to go to jail, either the accused or the accuser.” The Thunderdome is not a good model to emulate.
Good thing to insist on, but be prudent. Keep in mind that, at least on reddit, there’s a tendency for every thread about rape to become a thread about false accusations. I wasn’t there, but in general, sometimes people object not to the presumption of innocence but to people bringing it up.
Yeah this whole thing isn’t simple. Even if he’s cleared of charges, these allegations are old and that makes them hard to prove or disprove.
Further, the quantity is concerning. Maybe he’s just prolifically sexual but my gut can’t really get passed how many accusations there are over such a long span of time. Even if innocent, still creepy is my opinion.
In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn’t mean they’re innocent.
It just another example of having ridiculous amounts of money in our legal system means it’s really hard to be hel accountable.
Hell, trump got off of beating and raping his wife, because of an old ass New York law that said a husband can’t rape his wife under any circumstance.
Don’t forget the flip-side of that - the prisons are full of poor people who do not deserve to be there. It’s almost as if the system was designed to be like this…
Also, being a multimillionaire puts a target on your back. I’ll never forget the story about a man who already had a couple of million winning a huge lottery and how lawsuits, among other ever worse things, destroyed his life.
Because Ari Behn was just a clout chaser looking for a quick buck.
the quantity is concerningAnd also not admissible in a criminal court. That’s part of the problem. If you look at the big picture, it’s obvious he did it, but it’s not as easy to prove it in criminal court.
Even if it were all legally fine, something is wrong if that many people are coming forward.
Is it really obvious that he did something, or is it obvious that he’s another gay man being attacked for daring to publicly admit that he’s gay? Sure there’s a lot of allegations, but many of them were dropped by the accusers, and as the article points out there was a huge rush of “me too” allegations brought out against many people at the same time because it was the trending get-rich-quick scheme. Even in Spacey’s case, why did most of these allegations not come out until he admitted he was gay?
IMHO if Spacey is actually guilty of these crimes, he’s going to be blackballed by all the studios and won’t ever be seen on the screen again. Although the courts didn’t prove him guilty, the studios know who is doing what, and in today’s market any further allegations will cost them money.
I think it went the other way around, didn’t it? At least the first accusations came out, and he used the occasion to say “I didn’t do that! But now that I’m talking about this stuff, by the way I’m gay.”
It wasn’t a great look, because it came across that he tried to deflect the accusations by coming out as gay. But the other accusations were just as you said, a lot of “me too” after the first ones.
True enough, and he caught hell for the timing of that announcement. There’s also the issue of there just being such a different culture of what’s “acceptable” in Hollywood. I think it’s great that it finally came to light and those activities were at least tempered somewhat, but I also remember reading a lot of claims a decade ago and just thinking to myself that this is something you’re claiming ‘everyone’ in Hollywood is doing, but you chose to specifically target this one actor? The “me too” train was real, and a lot of people were going after big name actors, so I got burnt out on the whole thing and just stopped paying any attention to it.
Yet suggest Pee-wee Herman is creepy and you get downvoted. Even though without question he was caught with illegal material.
A depressing number of victims of child sexual assault commit suicide, and thus their testimony cannot be used by the prosecution. For example, in Australia, the case of George Pell.
So you think he’s guilty, because there’s no evidence proving he is?
Insanity.
I refuse to believe you’re actually this stupid. There’s a universe of difference between “it didn’t happen” and “it couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court” and you know there is.
Unless you really think OJ didn’t murder his wife either
I refuse to believe you’re actually this stupid. You’re throwing these statements as if you have first hand experience of knowing these things happened. Like were you there in person when Spacey was assaulting these people or were you a witness when OJ killed his wife? You don’t wanna believe the witnesses, you don’t wanna believe the jury, you don’t don’t wanna believe in the legal systems (cops/courts and whatever have you). But you believe in some people accusing someone of something. EVEN if they cleared themselves of these accusations.
Are you actually this ignorant to not know that all people are all not down to earth and sometimes people can and do crazy shit. Why do you think there’s zero percent chance that these people were bad, but Kevin Spacey is 100 percent bad without a shadow of a doubt for seemingly just being rich?
https://people.com/tv/kevin-spacey-controversy-timeline/
https://www.newsweek.com/why-oj-simpson-found-not-guilty-killing-nicole-brown-simpson-25-years-1535955
Read. Learn.
Your stance treats the government as if it were some kind of perfect arbiter of fact.
It is not, that’s his whole point. What is even happening here are you not capable of reading
Three people died after his “Kill Them With Kindness” youtube video.
Your posts are shit. Go back to Reddit. Its dense like you.