On May 26, a user on HP’s support forums reported that a forced, automatic BIOS update had bricked their HP ProBook 455 G7 into an unusable state. Subsequently, other users have joined the thread to sound off about experiencing the same issue.
This common knowledge regarding BIOS software would, then, seem to make automatic, forced BIOS updates a real issue, even if it weren’t breaking anything. Allowing the user to manually install and prepare their systems for a BIOS update is key to preventing issues like this.
At the time of writing, HP has made no official comment on the matter — and since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
Overall, this isn’t a very good look for HP, particularly its BIOS update practices. The fragility of BIOS software should have tipped off the powers at be at HP about the lack of foresight in this release model, and now we’re seeing it in full force with forced, bugged BIOS updates that kill laptops.
The idea of forced automatic BIOS update is dumb. BIOS only should initialize its required components and fuck off afterwards.
seems like it should be an opt-in setting in BIOS;
- HP might want to learn from the other OEM vendors what to do for BIOS/UEFI configuration
There is no BIOS anymore. It’s all UEFI, which is massively fatter and more complex. Being fat and complex, they have plenty of security vulnerabilities that need to be patched.
At the time of writing, HP has made no official comment on the matter — and since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I am not all that big on conspiracies, but this is HP, which is famous for screwing people over for as much money as possible and bricking perfectly usable technology, so if it turns out this was intentional, I won’t even be a little shocked.
I’d go Hanlon’s Razor on this, because I’ve seen some stunning stupidity. It’s not all evil when some of it is just plain dumb, because of incomplete testing and oversight, because they cut costs to save money, so the CEO gets a bonus, and ohhhhhhhh I see it now.
It’s evil.
As the enshittification of everything gains momentum, I could also see this as an intentional “oops!”
But we are talking about HP. They are now and always have been completely incompetent PC makers. I had friends back in the early 2000s with broken HP desktop computers that I refused to work on because they were the hardest to get working again.
I wish we could get a dump of executive emails.
After the first 4 words of the title I was assuming it was intentional - Glad it doesn’t seem to be, but HP’s reputation is just that bad.
since this battery update was forced on laptops originally released in 2020, this issue has also bricked hardware outside of the warranty window, when previously users could simply send in the laptop for a free repair.
I hope HP aren’t surprised when they get accosted with bricked laptops through their execs’ windshields at random intervals…
If i knew of any execs near where i live they would be getting a front row seat to my reenactment of the Office Space printer scene.
It’s rare for me to viscerally hate someone just for existing, but if i met an HP exec I would have to exert quite a bit of self control to not beat them until I lost feeling in my hands
It’s rare for me to viscerally hate someone just for existing
Microsoft exec as well
My wife’s Elitebook was also bricked by the most recent forced BIOS update.
I remember warning labels on BIOS updates that basically said that if nothing is broken, don’t do the update because the risk of bricking the device did not outweigh any potential benefits. That vendors are now pushing mandatory BIOS updates through Windows Update is terrifying.
They really, really, should be doing A/B systems. Or just have an absolutely minimum loader that can load from EPROM/flash or USB so when the system storage gets messed up, you can still launch the updater from USB. That bios loader doesn’t need to know more than how to talk to storage and shovel bytes to the CPU, maybe blink a LED, it’s simple enough to be able to be actual ROM, never needing to be updated.
Wait, no: SD cards can talk SPI… it’s not going to be fast but it’s only a few megs anyway. The EPROM or Flash you’re using probably speaks SPI, already. You could literally make a system which can load the BIOS from SD card for the cost of a card cage and maybe a jumper. You could have gigabytes of bios storage for three bucks by using off the shelf cheap SD cards, forget A/B storage you could do the whole bloody alphabet and people could replace the thing easily.
Here’s some extra fun: there’s a decent chance that you only need a cable with JST or DuPont connectors. I’ve seen a fair number of laptop motherboards with unused SPI headers/connectors just hanging out. My understanding being that they’re for possible accessories or, literally for flashing/debugging the bios.
When I heard that BIOS updates were going out automatically via Windows update I had just assumed the devices in question must be using an A/B update scheme to prevent the risk of accidentally bricking the system, because obviously they should.
Absolutely insane that’s not the case.
Why can even touch bios from system? That sound like horrible attack vector. If can infect bios, no reformat or reinstall will remove virus.
You’re not touching BIOS from the system. The software just downloads a cryptographically singed binary and reboots into BIOS. Then BIOS checks if the file is ok and proceeds to flash itself.
attack vetor if the person has physical access to your device, or the bios connect to the internet, at that point fuck it
No meant like if can infect system, could touch bios and infect, so make virus stay forever.
Which sound horrible.
Also Intel ME can connect to internet and is below BIOS. Agree, fuck it.
HP expanding their bad practices from printers to PCs now?
Microsoft should also be to blame here. Sending BIOS updates via automatic windows updates should not be a thing.
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The alternative is that BIOS updates simply never get applied.
Which is better than bricking a machine
That’s a better alternative…
Not sure when the sentiment changed, but it used to be heavily recommended against updating the bios on any computer unless there was a specific feature or fix your computer needed.
Sentiment changed when the “BIOS” became a component for enforcing security architecture via “SecureBoot” and also Bitlocker sealed to PCRs only does so much if the BIOS code is vulnerable. Now they really badly want a “trusted” chain from some root of trust until the OS bootloader takes over. Problem is that the developers have historically enjoyed being in a trusted, single user context for decades and so the firmware has been full of holes when actually pushed.
Are we sure it is the BIOS? Perhaps these people have run out of magenta subpixels or their printer ink subscription has lapsed.
Heh. Same HP. Though? I forget which company got what in the divorce. I think this one is the “code built by revolving-door sweatshops and who has budget to validate it” and not the “standing over the corpse of Print and hoping lock-in will keep customers” one. The two sides may sound the same but I’m sure there are differences.
(Keeping score at home? A drunk sailor with a fist full of hundies still can’t buy anything off that horrendous website, so some things haven’t changed in the divorce)
Ugh. Microsoft really trying to advertise for Linux again
on these laptops you can update bios from bios, just needs to be connected via ethernet
But that’s not automatic or forced. Linux would never automatically update a BIOS.
Is it even possible to update BIOS on Linux? AFAIK, the installers are either for Windows or directly through the BIOS itself.
yes, but the manufacturer need to support, thinkpads update bios fine under linux for example, usinf fwupd
Right, but so few do that. In general, updating BIOS through Linux isn’t really a thing.
I think its highly manufacturer dependent but I install BIOS updates from Ubuntu on all my Dells.
I had Windows push a bios update on my HP omen desktop. It completed the update but wouldn’t get back up after restart. The fans went crazy for a moment and then it was dead. Luckily I had warranty left. They replaced processor and motherboard. Good job HP/Microsoft.
HP is the one responsible here, Windows is just the delivery service HP uses to deliver their updates.
I’m all for hating on Microsoft, but you don’t blame the UPS driver for delivering a bomb to your house.
On the offhand chance that someone with a bricked HP laptop stumbles here looking for what to do (prob via smartphone or public library computer),
- I’d recommend on removing the M.2 SSD (gumslice-shaped PCB that contains your data) to protect your data
- this can be found by googling your laptop’s serial number and looking for the manual, after downloading the PDF file you’ll be able to open it with Firefox
- you’ll typically need a philips-head screwdriver to remove the laptop’s case and remove the SSD
I’m assuming the users might be coming from Windows
hopefully this helps someone out there
To expand: said M.2 SSD contains all of your data, and can be plugged into another computer to recover it, put it on a USB drive or upload it to an online drive. A local PC repair shop is going to be unable to make the PC work again at present, but they can help you with extracting the SDD and your data for less than $100.
I’d strongly recommend against that at this point since it will be useless without your Bitlocker key form the laptop’s TPM.
Since probably 99% of Windows PCs don’t run Bitlocker, I think your recommendation is a bit overblown.
When did you last check the statistic you just pulled from your ass? Bitlocker is on by default on all machines that support it, which is all pc’s and laptops being sold the past few years.
The only exception used to be when you bypass oobe to create a local user account, which also isn’t supported anymore.
Part of my job description includes repairing PCs. I see quite a lot of them over the course of a month. I also set up lots of new PCs for people when they buy them. All I see Bitlocker enabled on by default are Surface devices and the occasional Lenovo laptop/tablet hybrid POS. So I pulled that statistic from my own personal observations.
Even if it isn’t “bitlocker” branded, most Windows PCs ship with “BitLocker” enabled. The distinction between Windows Home disk encryption and “BitLocker” is that BitLocker additionally allows external management of the key material, while Home only supports the TPM and your microsoft account for the key/recovery codes.
most Windows PCs ship with “BitLocker” enabled
No, they simply do not. Microsoft branded hardware, sure. But I’ve never seen a Dell or an HP with Bitlocker enabled from the factory, and at this point I’ve put my hands on thousands of them.
I can tell you every factory preload of windows on a Lenovo I have seen for the past few years has disk encryption on by default (windows home, so not “bitlocker”, but it’s the same thing with respect to being tied to TPM.
yeeesh is this with Windows 10 and/or 11?still not a fan of Windows
edit:
just remembered this is Windows 11, unfortunately I know some people that got forced to use it with most modern laptops
Assuming BitLocker wasnt enabled and if so you backed up your key. Otherwise your data is gone.
- I’d recommend on removing the M.2 SSD (gumslice-shaped PCB that contains your data) to protect your data
This happened to me on my daughters Lenovo. Got a windows update overnight. Updated while traveling in the car. Wouldn’t boot. Apparently the BIOS updated and there was no fix. Had to send gor a replacement under warranty. Sent it off, took 8 weeks to get it back. Wasn’t even the same serial number, just a replacement with no sdd.
we’ve had clients have their dell systems bricked from bios updates. it’s not just hp.
at least dell (reluctantly) offered free repairs, even out of warranty, on those models at the time. ‘repair’ being motherboard swap plus shipping both ways if not covered by an onsite warranty plan.
i still have one of those ‘repaired’ systems here. user gave it to us years after it got fixed. it just sat, unused, once they got it back as they bought a new one due to the lengthy turnaround they were quoted.
No one should buy HP products anymore. Seriously everything they make is terrible and then they break it more when they get bored of you and want you to buy another one.
Thing is, all the other major manufacturers are just as bad or worse.
As a PC technician, HP still somehow has the best service and support, which speaks volumes about how bad everyone else is. Dell’s support tools are a generation behind HP’s, and Lenovo’s build quality is atrocious. Not to mention Lenovo’s technician support is so badly fragmented and poorly run, they default to having the customer send the device in for repair and avoid sending an on-site technician just so they can avoid dealing with technician support. Speaking from personal experience, getting to the right person when I have a problem or need to order additional parts is like pulling teeth, and even if I manage to reach someone, they’re usually equal parts incompetent and unhelpful.
And Apple doesn’t even want to service their stuff.
These days, you have to pick your poison.
HP:
Just one extra free bit of advertising for Linux.
What does a motherboard BIOS have to do with Windows other than that was how the update was delivered? I swear Lemmy loves to shoehorn Linux into any article that even mentions Windows.
What does a motherboard BIOS have to do with Windows other than that was how the update was delivered?
So what does this have to do with Windows and Linux other than the fact that Linux wouldn’t have a mandatory unskippable update?
If they were running Linux the HP update utility would not be running.
