Amazing! So many options and bands, along with proper descriptions, thank you very much!!

And let’s not forget the Crass, and Fugazi.

Yupp, that seems to be the case. Antideutsche are a very weird, very German phenomenon. I know one, and I would generally call him a friend, but we haven’t really talked since the latest happenings, and we had some rather heated debates in the past.

Now, on paper, what he (my friend, I don’t know much about Danger Dan) told me about what he believes to be the core of it all is, it wouldn’t sound that bad: A leftist group heavily and fundamentally dedicated to combating antisemitism within leftist circles through critique and provocation. I do think that some leftist groups do have the problem of teetering on the edge of antisemitism, it is very easy to fall off a superficial, reductive and uninformed critique of capitalism into antisemitism, and anti-Isreal sentiment can be antisemitic for sure, although usually when coming from leftists, it at least actively works not to be and tries to self-reflect. Some of his points and analysis I did agree with, too, like - one should be wary when groups specifically single out Israel and glance over other imperialist crimes.

But then… It goes so much further. They fervently belief in Zionism as the only way to permanently guarantee another Holocaust will never happen. I think not only is it a very poor solution to ensure the Jewish people will never again be treated as outsiders without a home, to give them what is essentially a colonial state that materially cannot function without imperialist and colonialist exploitation (a common half-joke in Germany is, that they should have just given them Bavaria instead), but it ironically is also a “final solution to the Jewish question” in a way, that some of the more moderate Nazis would have been okay with - as long as the “parasitic Jews” are given something outside of Europe and banished to there.

It also doesn’t guarantee safety in the way they think, I fear. Even now, debates happen which Jews are the proper Jews that are allowed to benefit from the “unconditional” protection of the Jewish people within the borders of their new nation state. And with a right-wing-extremist government, which itself arose from the material conditions of having a de-facto colonial state, this isn’t going away easily. Do you really think that if Jews were persecuted on Nazi levels again in Europe or the US, that leftist, anti-Zionist Jews would find a safe haven without discrimination in the state of Israel? It may be safer than in a state actively trying to exterminate them - if the fundamental legal guarantee that any Jew at any time can become a citizen held up in that potential future - but they would still be far from safe and accepted.

Lastly, what makes Antideutsche so “German” is something about a core part of traditional German ideology grown from its history. Germany in the 19th and 20th century built a huge myth around being the potentially powerful victims of the other powers in Europe, held back by being victimised. Not completely without any basis even, the 30 Years’ War for example did really have a traumatic effect, with some parts of Germany-to-be being practically cleansed of population, and it had political maneuvering that indeed was carried out to prevent any kind of unified German national identity arising. But it was a myth, nonetheless, one that led to the two most horrible wars of modernity. Because the German myth of victimhood was used to justify the imperialist expansion and horrible crimes of Germany in the modern era.

Now, a psychological analysis here, why I think Antideutsche have, very ironically to their name (Anti-Germans), a very German mindset: They tend to project the desire to be victims onto the same people Germany so horribly victimised. It is in a way perfect, the projection means that they can fully disavow being affected by the original German myth (not consciously, mind you), and the Jewish people definitely really were victims of the most horrible, shocking genocide of the 20th century, with people literally reduced to value to be extracted by extermination with industrial efficiency and a well-oiled bureaucratic apparatus. That reality of victimhood does not remove the pathological nature of the myth, unfortunately. As Lacan showed: A pathologically jealous husband has a pathological problem with jealousy, even if his partner is betraying him. And to protect the security of the victimised people at any cost and prevent them from being victimised again, they need their own nation, on the backs of the victimisers if necessary, and with the right to use any means necessary. Essentially, that is a variant of the German foundational myth, projected onto another people.

It leads to some very weird scenarios. There you have a guy like my friend, who I honestly value for being able to genuinely discuss Marxist minutae with me at times, so it’s not like he is stupid or just a leftist without any knowledge at all, and most of his leftist positions are genuine and if not good, at least valuable to be debated… But then he also is deeply caught up in the swamp of ideology, willing to literally defend or deny genocide because of some unfortunate mind virus and subculture he’s caught up in.

As I said, we haven’t talked since last year, and I dread what might happen between us if we did… Antideutsche are a weird phenomenon here in Germany…

Sorry for the rant, it’s just a topic close to my heart.