“But but… what about shareholder value?”
- East India Company, United Fruit, and plenty others.
And God said go forth and multiply profits for the pharaohs, priests and tax collectors.
Sounds like something The Profits would say.
shudder
I just imagined Kai Winn as middle management and… yikes.
And kill the firstborn (who are my children, whom I love) of every tribe member (who are my children, whom I love) because the tribe’s leaders (who are my children, whom I love) were big meanies to my chosen children (whom I love the mostest)!
What value did your children provide to the profits? Let he who provides nothing to the shareholders die without healthcare. So let it be written so let it be done.
“But but… what if some of them are terrorists?”
>“Nothing justifies genocide.”
>Proceeds to make arguments justifying genocide
I have no idea how you could possibly think this supports your position on things.
If Major Kira was living under a government that offered no alternative to genocide, she’d take up a phaser and start killing government officials, you know, like she literally did, in the show. She’d never condone someone who supported genocide, even if it meant resorting to violent opposition instead.
Proceeds to make arguments justifying genocide
“Justifying genocide is when you oppose genocide, and the more you oppose it, the more you justify it” - Very Serious Lemmings
Alternatively, “The prospect of an eventual violent revolution justifies genocide” - Very Serious Lemmings
Or more realistically, “I think that the prospect of virtue signaling without affecting government policy justifies genocide, because that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside” - Very Serious Lemmings
deleted by creator
I’m not accusing you of supporting genocide for voting against a fascist, I’m also voting against a fascist. I’m accusing you of supporting genocide for voting for a candidate that supports genocide. There’s nothing “secret” about it, it’s your openly expressed position.
deleted by creator
So are you not voting Biden, or do you deny the genocide being done to the Palestinians?
deleted by creator
Without saying what they are, cool. I guess I’m rejecting your false dilemmas, lies, and accusations too, then.
Will Trump getting into power make things better for people in Palestine?
No. That’s why I’m not voting for him or helping him get into power.
“Justifying genocide is when you oppose genocide, and the more you oppose it, the more you justify it” - Very Serious Lemmings
“Opposing genocide is when you vote for someone doing a genocide and the harder you post about supporting them the more you oppose it” - Very Serious Lemmings 🤡
It’s very funny to me that you received friendly fire because people on your side saw a simple “genocide is bad” meme and just assumed it was about them. You’d think that would lead to introspection but what do I know lol.
“Opposing genocide is when you vote for someone doing a genocide and the harder you post about supporting them the more you oppose it” - Very Serious Lemmings 🤡
Ah, the good old “Thoughts and prayers to LGBT folk who are going to be genocided in the US under a Trump regime”, how classy. You’re literally just endorsing fascism with extra steps, but I’m sure we’ll have great fun in the camps together when you say “AT LEAST I DIDN’T VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS”
The democrats aren’t going to coerce me into voting for genocide no matter how many far-right politicians they fund and support to threaten me. After all:
If you comment more, people will forget your bad takes and agree with you. Surely.
The democrats aren’t going to coerce me into voting for genocide
Oh, cool, so you’re not voting for the option that intensifies genocide, right?
… right…?
Oh, who am I kidding? You’ll do whatever you can to ensure a Trump victory and the total genocide of Palestinians.
Oh, cool, so you’re not voting for the option that intensifies genocide, right?
Yes, obviously. I’m not voting for either of the options that intensify genocide.
Oh, who am I kidding? You’ll do whatever you can to ensure a Trump victory and the total genocide of Palestinians.
This coming from someone who literally eats babies. See, I can make shit up too.
Yes, obviously. I’m not voting for either of the options that intensify genocide.
The classic “I’m going to uproot the tracks!” answer to the trolley problem, while sitting by and doing nothing of the sort. A fascist’s best friend. :)
Oh, look. Another hopeful leader for the resistance when the red hats take over. Like we ain’t got a million of those lying around somewhere. Have fun getting caught and thrown in a camp.
It’s very funny to me that you received friendly fire because people on your side saw a simple “genocide is bad” meme and just assumed it was about them.
I think it’s more that OP has made numerous comments in this thread arguing that we should vote for Biden.
OP’s vibe seems to be “Yes, I really really really do oppose genocide… but the responsible thing is to vote for Biden, and people who won’t support him are the true genocide enablers.”
Right, he’s a Biden stan and other Biden stans are attacking him for posting “genocide is bad” with one even calling it a “fascist dogwhistle.”
“Are we the baddies?” moment.
Oh, right. Now I follow.
Yeah, the Biden supporters are all doing ridiculous mental gymnastics. I’m not sure I’ve seen mental gymnastics like this outside of a cult.
And the commander of DS9 literally poisoned civilian settlements in one episode.
I don’t recall this, do you know which episode it was?
Season 5, Episode 13 For The Uniform
He does this to a Maquis settlement after they had similarly poisoned two Cardassian planets.
I’ll dig around, TBH I saw it on a YouTube clip a few months ago. He was chasing a terrorist I think in the defender and he retreated to this planet. And sico? was like if you don’t give up I’m going to poison the atmosphere with blah blah, and then he did it. And was like holy fuck did a star Trek Captain just commit genocide/war crimes? WTF…
AppleTea beat you to it. Season 5 episode 13 For the Uniform.
Yeah I mean fiction isn’t always the best guide to real life situations.
Despite the trolls accusing people here of justifying it- I do t see anyone here is doing that. I’m pretty sure they know this, and this is what makes it hard to call them out for what they are doing. It’s like arguing with Christians.
They just misinterpret your words, rewrite them using their English-to-Troll filter, and shout them back at you once they say essentially the opposite of what you’re saying.
Example:
ME: “of course I don’t support genocide. But not voting for Biden isn’t going to stop it, and Donald ‘finish the job’ Trump is going to be far worse on Palestine than Biden could ever be!”
TROLL: “See! You support gEnOciDe!”
Now, you could accuse me of doing exactly what I’m accusing them of, but I’d urge you to look through my recent comment history. Somewhere between yesterday and today- you can see this exact thing happening.
The point is. From what I can see, NO ONE here is supporting genocide. The ones in other communities that do, get banned pretty quickly. And anyone that is accusing people of it, are proving to everyone that they aren’t here to discuss things rationally- because they’re starting from a complete and total lack of rationale.
deleted by creator
They’re not who they pretend to be, they’re right-wing trolls from /pol or wherever trying to influence the election for their side
Some of them certainly are.
It’s pretty easy to tell by the way they write. The sort of pseudo-clever, meme-y, derivative Twitch-speak you’d hear among gamers and mgtow types, mixed with a feeble attempt to sound like a tankie
Meanwhile:
“I support the Green party.”
“So what you’re really saying is, you think everyone should not vote on election day, or vote for Trump.”
We have First Past the Post. You support Trump, Biden, or violent revolution – those are the choices
Trump supports violent revolution, just the wrong one.
Nope, that isn’t how math works. A vote for the Green Party is equivalent to not voting at all. Lying about it and stamping your feet won’t change anyone’s opinion. Also you guys always assume the GP voters are a subset of democrats when in reality most of them are not. Most would not vote for democrats if their first choice were taken away.
They’re just a convenient excuse for you whenever Dems lose because it’s easier to blame them than to hold dem leadership accountable for their very obvious and repeated failures. And it’s surely easier than holding yourself accountable for constantly nominating weak candidates. I mean you all got handed fucking Obama and still fought tooth and nail against him in the primary because you’re so scared of even slightly rocking the boat. Dem voters are gigantic cowards and enablers
You will not shame people into voting for Biden, it’s actually insane to see you all trot out this failed tactic yet again
This seems like a misplaced rant? But anyway, go read up on First Past the Post and understand why it is the shittiest voting system. We will never make real progress as long as it is in place.
In a perfect world, that option would be viable. However, if you look around- and pay attention, it’s not. And it’s not even remotely close.
I’d be all over a third party option if there was even a small chance they’d succeed. But they can’t. And this isn’t an opinion. Vote third party and yeah- hate to say it but you are throwing away a vote. And it’s not a big stretch to understand how a non vote or a third party vote FACTUALLY benefits Trump.
I fucking hate that this is how it is, but I’d rather live in the real world than believe in my own reality.
You lost me when you lied about non-votes “fAcTuAlLy” benefitting trump. That is a blatant falsehood that assumes people would automatically vote for Biden instead. Your fear mongering and dishonesty won’t win over a single vote.
It’s not a lie. It very much is a fact:
Read this when you get a chance. It explains it much better than I could.
Shut the fuck up troll
Sure but because of my begged question, you’re actually saying something else.
I see tenforward is leaking…
I approve.
The only thing that shocked and appalled Riker was Picard pulling the women he really wanted.
Lul, didn’t even notice this is politicalmemes
Much like the federation, it’s their duty to explore and trade culture with far away, strange cultures. Much like here in our c/politicalmemes, a lot is different but there are many similarities to the c/tenforward they call home. They have families, jobs, sometimes get trapped in the pattern buffer, cloned, or stacked by a macrovirus . . Just like here.
Yep, this is definitely Ten Forward. It’s a bullshit dogwhistle designed to help Donald Trump get elected and do more genocide, so it can’t be from Risa, it must be from the crappy one.
No, it’s not. I’d suggest you look into OP’s post history and maybe delete this dumb accusation.
A rabid dog growls when nobody’s whistling, so to speak.
Imagine being so demented that you think genocide is a dog whistle
Hey at least I’m not a genocide supporter like all the people on Lemmy who pretend to complain about Biden’s genocide so they can get Trump to do more genocide
deleted by creator
Time Traveller from 1993 (when this episode aired): “So, what’s 2024 like?”
“If you say you won’t support genocide, you get accused of being a Russian asset.”
Also an anti-Semite.
Or a sinophobe or a russophobe, or a bad sport depending on which genocide you deny.
It’s a fucked up state the world is in when all great powers have their own genocide which they deny.
Whichever way you vote, this will continue to happen. Sobering thought, eh?
This isn’t totally true, but it’s partially true. If Trump wins the American election, he will double down support for Israel and completely write off all those who oppose them as terrorists.
Biden is just kind of apologetically supporting them because he’s a weak leader that can’t afford to rock the boat. He does weakly push back often, it’s just nowhere near what we want or need.
If Biden actually wins the election, he may actually end American support. I’m of the opinion he’s afraid of offending democrats and independents that support Israel, thus losing him the election (since he’s barely ahead in the polls.) Most of us are still going to vote for him despite this, because Trump is far worse… You can’t say that about the people who support Isreal.
Biden is just kind of apologetically supporting them because he’s a weak leader that can’t afford to rock the boat … If Biden actually wins the election, he may actually end American support
No, he is ideologically committed to supporting Israel. He has said this multiple times and I see no reason to disbelieve him. I think it’s equally likely Trump would stop supporting Israel because of America First/antisemitism, which is to say, so unlikely as to be impossible.
Yeah, Trump himself has no policy commitments. He’ll say whatever he thinks is popular biased on the last thing he’s seen on television. In office, he delivers bog-standard republican policy because that’s who his cabinet gets filled with.
I don’t see Biden changing his stance on arming Israel. Trump could, but the question is whether would it last long enough to actually affect policy.
Biden is the #1 whore of israel. He’s been sucking their dick for his entire career.
There are no quick solutions or permanent victories, unfortunately. Which is why civic education is so important, and so frustratingly undertaught.
deleted by creator
I think I could find it in me to justify geocide of the Jem’Hadar.
(Since this is not a Star Trek board: The Jem’Hadar are a genetically engineered race, made by the Dominion. Their purpose is to be ruthless soldiers. They are engineered without emotions, or any care for human-like values, and so they inevitably have no sense of ethics. They are managed in two ways: first, the need for a drug-like protein that only the Dominion can synthesize; and second, a predisposition to recognize the Founders of the Dominion as their slavemasters.)
But any race, even a race with a proven tendency to be assholes, like the Cardassians, deserves a chance.
As for Palestinians, it’s not even close. They should obviously be considered innocent civilians. If I were to make inferences about who was the more evil race based on the current war, I would be much more likely to pick Israelis because of their current kill count of civilians.
But we don’t make such inferences. They’re all humans. They’re way more closely related than Bajorans vs Cardassians. They all evolved on the same planet, are the same species, with a very recent common ancestor. It’s due to their upbringing, education, and circumstances that Hamas and IDF both wish to commit genocide, and it’s due to external funding that IDF has been more successful at it.
You need a revisit of DS9.
Jem’hadar had their own set of internal rules and even disagreements on how to interpret or execute orders. The drug was used to ensure absolute control because they could evolve in a cultural or spiritual sense.
The Jem’Hadar were capable of going against their programming once their Ketracel addiction was treated. You don’t need genocide.
The Jem’Hadar were not without emotions. In Hippocratic Oat we see that. I’d argue that the fact that they’re an enslaved race Surely it’s better to be working to break them free of that enslavement, rather than committing genocide.
But then again I think Janeway’s genocide of the Borg was wrong too.
I tend to agree with don’t genocide The Borg, but how do you deal with The Borg? The just keep coming back stronger, and they’re kinda antithetical to the whole idea of free will.
Generally a good take, I just wished you hadn’t used the word “race”, because the concept of race itself is only a thing among racists, and we should not use that kind of language.
I am shocked and appalled by this grotesque show of antisemitism. Shocked and appalled I tell ya!
EDIT: /s…obviously
This is super hypocritical coming from pugjesus. Yikes.
Posting memes about tankies isn’t committing genocide. He’s metaphorically burning people, not literally.
That’s pretty hypocritical coming from a .ml user.
OP who has been spam posting pro Biden memes for the past month in this sub
lmao, I checked my last month of posts in this community, let’s go over them, shall we?
For those who are wondering but don’t want to go down through, it’s 1/18 pro-Biden posts, in the past 30 days. How strange that a tankie would make such an easily disproven lie! Totally unheard of! /s
-
Anti-genocide (this one)
-
“Based leftist president tells coup leader to fuck off”
-
Pro-ranked choice
-
“SCOTUS is fucked”
-
“FORM UNIONS”
-
“Fetishization of Russian politics is incredibly transparent and you shouldn’t fall for it”
-
Anti Ukrainian genocide
-
Anti Ukrainian genocide
-
An ACTUAL pro-Biden post [That’s 1 so far, for those counting]
-
“Trump speaks like a particularly troubled third grader”
-
“Capitalism is fucked”
-
“Trump speaking on history is fucking bizarre”
-
“Not everything bad is fascism; some things are bad but NOT fascism”
-
Criticism of China’s anti-LGBT policies
-
Anti-genocide
-
“Why do right-wingers always have anime profile pics”
-
“Reagan was a shitbag”
-
“MAGA doesn’t know what socialism is”
Oh I’m sorry I should have said the past 3 months of your terminally online ass
A personal screw you for putting Pakistan on the wrong rail for this one:
spoiler
some lazy paste post links in case someone else actually sees this reply https://lemmy.world/post/15388460 https://lemmy.world/post/15423884 https://lemmy.world/post/15534543 https://lemmy.world/post/15653486 https://lemmy.world/post/15661013 https://lemmy.world/post/10309731 (you get the idea)
Also bonus meme
Oh I’m sorry I should have said the past 3 months of your terminally online ass
Eight Biden posts over the course of three months - what a horrific torrent of spam! Lmao.
A personal screw you for putting Pakistan on the wrong rail for this one:
Aw, you think the Republican Party will be sweeter on Pakistan than the Democrats? How adorable.
We lost an entire populist party due to Biden, with thousands of citizens arrested, several MPAs & MNAs assassinated, and the former PM in jail on phony charges. Oh and the internet still half banned.
Conveniently Trump had no issue with said PM, either due to his former ties as a cricket captain or because for some reason he thought he should maintain foreign relations through the civilian government like a normal person and not negotiate with the insane pakistani army.
so yes
they were sweeter on Pakistan, as much as that pains me to say
Of course it was probably a one time wonder, but that doesn’t change the fact that Pakistan’s last cries of democracy were finally executed because the USA once again loves to protect its foreign power, and it totally wasn’t a coincidence it was from the former VP under the Obama administration that already did the exact same thing of bribing some army generals to do some dirty work.
deleted by creator
Lol no, not “The Americans”, I’m American myself. Not to mention Pakistan itself had some very good relations with the USA in the past.
More like average day DoD shenanigans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettergate
https://theintercept.com/2023/12/18/pakistan-cypher-imran-khan-charges/
Again, not that surprising considering Obama did similar things both before and after capturing OBL.
While I’m aware of the ‘Lettergate’ scandal and have different conclusions than you on the matter, upon reflection, I’m being tetchy above and beyond even what I normally am because I’m in pain today. That’s no excuse for my dismissive rhetoric, and I do apologize.
deleted by creator
-
You can say that all you want as long as you accept you have to vote for it.
Let me put it this way - there’s no justification for what Israel is doing or our continued support of Israel. There’s also no justification for welcoming fascism into the US.
This whole shitshow is a stain on our souls, collectively and individually. It’s all we can do to make the least bad choice, and then work towards it not being forced on us again.
Then we can enjoy some entirely new and unforeseen shitshow to torment us.
It’s shitshows and stains on your soul until you die.
If you took this out of the context of being on lemmy, it would be impossible to tell which side this came from.
What the fuck are you smoking?
Outside of shitty Israeli propaganda, no-one thinks Israel is under the threat of genocide.
And who think that Israel is committing one? The rest of the fucking world.
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven.
— Desmond Tutu
“What the fuck are you smoking” is an ad hominem designed to distract from my undeniably true point, specifically: that both sides are similar in using unfair allegations of defending genocide to dismiss more nuanced beliefs of the other side.
Outside of shitty Israeli propaganda, no-one thinks Israel is under the threat of genocide.
This is called a motte-and-bailey fallacy. You’re taking my point implying that both sides accuse the other of defending genocide and then wanna say I’m suggesting Israel is under threat of genocide. These are different things. You use a different thing because if you were to address the actual point, which again is undeniably true, you would have a very hard time.
To be clear, the “genocide” Israel supporters (unfairly) accuse others of defending is the Hamas attack on Israel, where Hamas killed unarmed civilians at close range, proudly recording it on video. I don’t mean to imply you can’t figure that out on your own, but you kinda forced me to point it out.
And if you say “but people who are protesting Israel aren’t defending Hamas attacking Israeli civilians, but are defending the right of the Palestinian civilians to remain alive”, then you understand completely. Now try swapping the relevant ethno-religious tribes.
You don’t understand what tbe words “ad hominem” or “genocide”
Mean.
You’re a little kid larping a philosopher. Badly.
To be clear, the “genocide” Israel supporters (unfairly) accuse others of defending is the Hamas attack on Israel, where Hamas killed unarmed civilians at close range, proudly recording it on video
In a highly charged ruling in January, the court ordered Israel to do everything in its power to prevent genocidal acts in Gaza
Again, you don’t seem to understand what “genocide” means.
It’s not “both sides”. “Both sides” do not have cases in the ICC about being accused of genocide. Both sides do not have convictions from the ICC that they need to do all the can to stop genocidal actions being undertaken.
You genocide defenders make me fucking sick. Grow some balls and question your brainwashing.
Ad hominem = attacking the person rather than the argument. Like “you’re a little kid…” The fact that you feel the need to accuse someone you’ve never seen of being a kid instead of pointing out what’s actually wrong with what I’m saying should be seen as evidence that you are desperately flailing, pathetically grasping for straws to build an argument from when you clearly have nothing. Instead, it’s getting upvoted, for some reason.
Everything else you say is completely and absolutely non-responsive, internet tropes in place of argument. You completely ignore the whole point of my argument, which is that you replaced my argument with another argument and argued against that instead, and proceeded to argue against an argument that was never made in the exact way I described.
Forget Israel and Palestine, the fact that this illogical Trumpian debate tactic shit is getting upvoted is the new thing that disturbs me. We’re truly fucked as a species.
Yes, “rather than”. Do you know what those words mean?
It doesn’t mean the same as “in addition to”, does it?
“Everything else you say is completely…”
You are the one pulling an ad hominem, not me. You ignore my answer to your “argument” and go on to attack my person. Your entire argument is “without the context of the site we’re on, no-one could know what this is referring to”, as if this was some sort of “both sides” bullshit, which you claim to despise.
It’s not. Everyone knows Israel is genociding Palestine and not a single reasonable person would argue that Palestine is trying to genocide Israel.
https://press.un.org/en/2024/ga12599.doc.htm
During the day-long discussion, speakers were near-unanimous in demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and warning against the catastrophic consequences of Israel’s assault on Rafah, where more than 1.5 million have congregated. Many underscored that while the adopted resolution represents the first step towards fulfilling the international community’s obligations to Palestine, ensuring its full UN membership is imperative.
Israel’s assault on Rafah.
Fuck your equivocating teenage propaganda bullshit.
You are the one pulling an ad hominem, not me. You ignore my answer to your “argument” and go on to attack my person.
No I didn’t, everything was specific to your argument. I said nothing about you. As for your argument, well I guess I’m glad that I’m promoted to teenager now.
Your entire argument is “without the context of the site we’re on, no-one could know what this is referring to”, as if this was some sort of “both sides” bullshit, which you claim to despise.
But the argument I’m making is that both sides are guilty of claiming the other side is defending genocide not that both sides are guilty of committing genocide right now. The argument that one side is defending genocide is bad faith, as other than a few extremists nobody on either side is actually defending genocide.
id…” The fact that you feel the need to accuse someone you’ve never seen of being a kid instead of pointing out what’s actually wrong
INSTEAD OF
I very clearly pointed out what’s wrong with your.
But the argument I’m making is that both sides are guilty of claiming the other side is defending genocide
“Both sides”
See. You’re pulling the ridiculous “both sides” bullshit.
The argument that one side is defending genocide is bad faith
No it isn’t. You’re just pretending it is, willfully ignoring the reality of the situation. Israel is most definitely defending a genocide.
“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.
“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — Accused of committing genocide against Palestinians, Israel insisted at the United Nations’ highest court Friday that its war in Gaza was a legitimate defense of its people and that it was Hamas militants who were guilty of genocide.
More than 23,000 people in Gaza have been killed during Israel’s military campaign, according to the Health Ministry in the Hamas-run territory. That toll does not distinguish between civilians and combatants. Nearly 85% of Gaza’s people have been driven their homes, a quarter of the enclave’s residents face starvation, and much of northern Gaza has been reduced to rubble.
… this amounts to genocide and is part of decades of Israeli oppression of Palestinians.
“The scale of destruction in Gaza, the targeting of family homes and civilians, the war being a war on children, all make clear that genocidal intent is both understood and has been put into practice. The articulated intent is the destruction of Palestinian life,” said lawyer Tembeka Ngcukaitobi, adding that several leading politicians had made dehumanizing comments about people in Gaza.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976
#Rights expert finds ‘reasonable grounds’ genocide is being committed in Gaza
From the river to the sea, Israel shell be free!
I’m joking but Israeli politicians do use similar rhetoric to justify wiping out Palestine
Yeah, it sucks that no one talks about the Junta
We’ve even had an “Evil must be opposed!” moment.
It’s a pitty Bibi didn’t hang himself while jumping off a railing.
No idea what you’re referring to OP. Stop vague posting and say what’s on your mind.
“The ongoing genocides in the world are bad - yes, all of them. Israeli, Russian, Sudanese, Chinese, all of them. All. Of. Them. None of them should have anyone playing apologetics for them. Genocide is bad. Genocide. Is. Bad. No, it is not ‘a complex situation’, that moniker was surrendered when the genocide kicked up. There is NO justification for genocide.”
I assume you got that quote from your dentist right?
Also I’m more referring to the headline you made for this post. I seems to imply that “genocide is bad” is now a widely controversial position. But again, who the fuck knows what you’re saying. From where I’m sitting it isn’t controversial at all, and I’d need to dig into the foulest depths of the internet to find a tiny handful of people with that position.
