If you want to convince people to become vegan,–or even vegetarian–you need to be inviting to them. The same goes for any political or religious movement; if you actively alienate people and tell them that they aren’t welcome before they can even try to join, then they likely never will.
I was a Mormon missionary. Yeah, it’s a cult. And you know how they recruited new cult members? By being extra loving and kind to people that were considering joining (and also hiding the really weird shit, like how they believe they eventually become gods themselves). It’s called “love bombing”. Mormons are absolutely, 100% convinced that they have the only correct religion, and that all other religions are false. But they will be your best friend ever while they’re trying to lure you in.
Start by presenting options that are as appealing as options that have animal products and cost less than animal products. Make equivalents that have similar flavors and textures so that people aren’t experiencing a significant shift when they’re eating, because food is often very emotional for people. (…Which you demonstrate so aptly in your activism against animals as food; it’s an emotional issue for you, even if it has intellectual aspects.) You need to create conditions such that people can eat less meat, and titer down their consumption, without attempting to shame them while they reduce their consumption.
There’s a restaurant in Atlanta that I highly recommend called La Semilla; they do Cuban food, and the entire restaurant is vegan. They understand that if you want most people to even consider being vegan, they have to be presented with food that looks, smells, and tastes appealing, and it must be presented in a welcoming atmosphere. They aren’t loud or angry in their message; they’re doing good food and being a good example. Every meal that a non-vegan eats there is one less meal made with animal products, and that, sir, is progress. And it’s more progress than they’d see if they told everyone that wasn’t already a vegan to fuck off and get the fuck out of their restaurant.
This is the most reddit thing I’ve read this year.
“Sir” lmfao.
Apparently you’ve been exposed to some restaurant that didn’t make you vegan so we should all do that which will continue not making people vegan.
That’ll save the billions and billions of innocent earthlings! Good job, you selfish, lazy, arrogant cretin. I’m so glad the world is full of people who will change when it requires no effort!
Every year around a trillion sentient beings live and die in horror. This happens in the vast majority of cases because people want to feel slightly more pleasure than they think they would feel if they ate beans.
Each one of these lives is a unique and beautiful thing, no more or less special than you or I. A brilliant, shining negation of the vast empty silence of the universe.
But chucklefuck here is more concerned about convenience than morality.
hey you just spoke your truth and people are downvoting you and i just want to say that’s fucked up. i asked a question and you clearly put thought and effort into your response. i mean you called the guy a chucklefuck, but tbh that’s a silly enough insult as to be taken entirely in jest, no prob.
idk it just feels like you’re being needlessly dunked on, this is the stupidest aspect of internet discourse.
Lol it doesn’t matter. Do gooder derogation is a well studied phenomena. It’s generally more important to people to protect their image of themselves as a good person than to actually be one by their own values.
We’ve all gotten frustrated at that person trying to get us to use guppy bags to filter plastics from clothing in the wash, or who was an early mover on reusable bags or whatever. Shit a lot of people probably simultaneously hate on people that leave dog poo behind while also having not gone back to pick up after their pets that time they left bags at home.
Almost everyone loves animals and hates people that hurt them for pleasure, but then goes and hurts them for pleasure. That’s a fucking painful truth, it sucks to realise you’re not fundamentally different from some horrible trophy hunter or whatever. It hurts to realise that the chicken you’re eating has emotions just as vivid and real as that dog you love to pat on your walk to the bus stop.
Much easier to just hate on the people doing something different than to acknowledge it’s not too difficult to change and having to look deep into yourself and ask some hard questions. Invent a cartoon where they’re all self righteous do-gooders, probably rich and privileged with no notion of the real world. Then why listen? they are the enemy and the enemy is wrong.
The truth is we all have blood on our hands, almost nobody was done the service of being raised vegan. I’ve loaded chickens up on a truck and sent them off to die thirsty and confused myself. We’re just the ones that chose to stop killing, because some fucking hero spent their energy and sanity making sure we couldn’t look away from the horror.
Sorry if our jokes are too acerbic for you, but absolutely nobody is making carnist come in to a circlejerk and make arses of themselves because they found a fragment of the fragment of the world that doesn’t cater to them.
Yeah, the carnists really crawl out of the woodwork broadcasting their disregard of rules, norms, and context in order to try feel superior to people enjoying a short break from them.
you don’t get it do you? You aren’t even vegan and you think you know how to do it all. You are so selfish and self absorbed, their lives aren’t real to you.
I think I know marketing better than you, yes. Because that’s the industry that I work in. Marketing is all about persuasion, and bluntly, vegans like you do a really shitty job at marketing the idea of being vegan, and a shitty job of persuading people to be vegan. Shame and guilt don’t sell a product or an idea; they cause resentment.
You’re acting like the Westboro Baptist Church; you’re telling everyone that isn’t already in your group how awful they are, and using the most offensive terms you can come up with to do so. Just like the WBC, you’re absolutely convinced that your way is the only morally correct way. But you aren’t actually bringing people to your moral cause; you’re pushing them away. If you want to push people away so that you can feel self-righteous, then sure, keep doing what you’re doing.
…But if you want to persuade people, if you actually want people to change, then maybe look into what actually works.
Do you want to make it important to me, if I’m not currently motivated to make it important to myself? If you do want to make it important to me, then how are you going to do it? Do you think that calling me the worst slurs that you can come up with is going to make me desire to change, or do you think that it’s going to make me angry and resentful towards you and the cause that you’re trying to champion? What do you think would be the most effective way to change my opinion of vaganism and of vegans, and make me desire to be a vegan?
Allow me to suggest a book that I think you might find to be useful. I’m going to assume that you have good intentions, and that you want to change the world in a way that you believe would be positive. That’s great! This might help you to find a more effective way to do it, so you can reach more people. Are you familiar with concepts of street epistemology? Many of the same concepts apply when you’re trying to persuade people.
If you don’t have any desire to make veganism important to other people, why not?
Then the people here either already know what the morally correct thing to do is and are choosing not to because someone on the Internet wasn’t nice to them, making them a terrible person, or they don’t think murder and torture are bad things when done to other creatures and no amount of Internet niceties will teach them otherwise, also making them a terrible person.
Nobody is selling anything. Make a moral decision or go away.
You’re pushing an ideology. You want people to get on board for those. By the powers of synonyms, you could just as easily say you’re selling an ideology and you want people to buy in.
Reframe it in a moral or ethical framework all you want. Throw sticks, call people monsters, whatever. You’re pushing a viewpoint you want people to accept. Maybe listen to the people you’re trying to talk to when they tell you how they want to be engaged with.
This is a circle jerk community for vegans. Nobody wants to teach a bunch of adult babies how not to be a shitheel, you’re supposed to already know to participate.
Stop violating instance rules and go away. I’m sorry you aren’t getting your hand held.
The only instance rule I seem to be violating is not personally being a vegan. If shit hits all, you HAVE to expect some outsiders to pop up in your community. You don’t want them there, don’t keep engaging with them.
That’s aight, though, I’ll see myself out. I’d rather hang with people who can engage in an actual conversation instead of getting their feelings hurt at some animosity.
You could also close your face and stop promoting murder and torture, but I know that’s too hard for you sociopaths. Go jerk off in the corner secure in the knowledge that you sure owned those vegans, content in how you make the world a worse place by being in it.
When vegans can’t sell the idea of being vegan to people–with the exception of selling it to people that are already inclined that way–maybe, just maybe, they should look at their sales techniques. Think about street corner preachers that use a megaphone to tell everyone that they’re going to hell because they’re fags, whores, sodomites, trannies, baby killers, whatever slur you want to use; have they ever, even once, managed to make you consider that maybe being an evangelical Christian was right for you?
Directing slurs at people that aren’t vegan isn’t going to convince people you’re right; it’s going to make people hostile and defensive. You’re creating an in-group and an out-group; you’re reinforcing your own status as a member of the in-group, while being exclusionary of everyone that is not already part of that group, or is not sufficiently committed to that group. It’s not even effective as form of negging, because negging has to be subtle.
If you want to sell ideas to people, you need to take advice from people that successfully sell ideas from people. If you don’t, well, good luck, 'cuz your gonna need it.
If you want to convince people to become vegan,–or even vegetarian–you need to be inviting to them. The same goes for any political or religious movement; if you actively alienate people and tell them that they aren’t welcome before they can even try to join, then they likely never will.
I was a Mormon missionary. Yeah, it’s a cult. And you know how they recruited new cult members? By being extra loving and kind to people that were considering joining (and also hiding the really weird shit, like how they believe they eventually become gods themselves). It’s called “love bombing”. Mormons are absolutely, 100% convinced that they have the only correct religion, and that all other religions are false. But they will be your best friend ever while they’re trying to lure you in.
Vegans could learn from this.
Do me a favour: Construct a form of activism so good it turns you vegan, then tell us about it.
Otherwise whatever ideas you have don’t seem to actually work on you either huh?
Start by not making it appear to be activism.
Start by presenting options that are as appealing as options that have animal products and cost less than animal products. Make equivalents that have similar flavors and textures so that people aren’t experiencing a significant shift when they’re eating, because food is often very emotional for people. (…Which you demonstrate so aptly in your activism against animals as food; it’s an emotional issue for you, even if it has intellectual aspects.) You need to create conditions such that people can eat less meat, and titer down their consumption, without attempting to shame them while they reduce their consumption.
There’s a restaurant in Atlanta that I highly recommend called La Semilla; they do Cuban food, and the entire restaurant is vegan. They understand that if you want most people to even consider being vegan, they have to be presented with food that looks, smells, and tastes appealing, and it must be presented in a welcoming atmosphere. They aren’t loud or angry in their message; they’re doing good food and being a good example. Every meal that a non-vegan eats there is one less meal made with animal products, and that, sir, is progress. And it’s more progress than they’d see if they told everyone that wasn’t already a vegan to fuck off and get the fuck out of their restaurant.
This is the most reddit thing I’ve read this year.
“Sir” lmfao.
Apparently you’ve been exposed to some restaurant that didn’t make you vegan so we should all do that which will continue not making people vegan.
That’ll save the billions and billions of innocent earthlings! Good job, you selfish, lazy, arrogant cretin. I’m so glad the world is full of people who will change when it requires no effort!
what’s your problem?
Every year around a trillion sentient beings live and die in horror. This happens in the vast majority of cases because people want to feel slightly more pleasure than they think they would feel if they ate beans.
Each one of these lives is a unique and beautiful thing, no more or less special than you or I. A brilliant, shining negation of the vast empty silence of the universe.
But chucklefuck here is more concerned about convenience than morality.
That’s my problem.
hey you just spoke your truth and people are downvoting you and i just want to say that’s fucked up. i asked a question and you clearly put thought and effort into your response. i mean you called the guy a chucklefuck, but tbh that’s a silly enough insult as to be taken entirely in jest, no prob.
idk it just feels like you’re being needlessly dunked on, this is the stupidest aspect of internet discourse.
Lol it doesn’t matter. Do gooder derogation is a well studied phenomena. It’s generally more important to people to protect their image of themselves as a good person than to actually be one by their own values.
We’ve all gotten frustrated at that person trying to get us to use guppy bags to filter plastics from clothing in the wash, or who was an early mover on reusable bags or whatever. Shit a lot of people probably simultaneously hate on people that leave dog poo behind while also having not gone back to pick up after their pets that time they left bags at home.
Almost everyone loves animals and hates people that hurt them for pleasure, but then goes and hurts them for pleasure. That’s a fucking painful truth, it sucks to realise you’re not fundamentally different from some horrible trophy hunter or whatever. It hurts to realise that the chicken you’re eating has emotions just as vivid and real as that dog you love to pat on your walk to the bus stop.
Much easier to just hate on the people doing something different than to acknowledge it’s not too difficult to change and having to look deep into yourself and ask some hard questions. Invent a cartoon where they’re all self righteous do-gooders, probably rich and privileged with no notion of the real world. Then why listen? they are the enemy and the enemy is wrong.
The truth is we all have blood on our hands, almost nobody was done the service of being raised vegan. I’ve loaded chickens up on a truck and sent them off to die thirsty and confused myself. We’re just the ones that chose to stop killing, because some fucking hero spent their energy and sanity making sure we couldn’t look away from the horror.
Sorry if our jokes are too acerbic for you, but absolutely nobody is making carnist come in to a circlejerk and make arses of themselves because they found a fragment of the fragment of the world that doesn’t cater to them.
Earthlings lol Also didn’t you use “sir” in another comment on this post? Take your fingers off your keyboard thanks.
Yes earthings, we are all the earthlings. We come from earth, we share a common heritage.
Cite me if I did you shiver looking for a spine to run up.
Wow, this community is a great place to find people for the block list!
Yeah, the carnists really crawl out of the woodwork broadcasting their disregard of rules, norms, and context in order to try feel superior to people enjoying a short break from them.
Missed that part, did we?
That will surely save them all!
you don’t get it do you? You aren’t even vegan and you think you know how to do it all. You are so selfish and self absorbed, their lives aren’t real to you.
I think I know marketing better than you, yes. Because that’s the industry that I work in. Marketing is all about persuasion, and bluntly, vegans like you do a really shitty job at marketing the idea of being vegan, and a shitty job of persuading people to be vegan. Shame and guilt don’t sell a product or an idea; they cause resentment.
You’re acting like the Westboro Baptist Church; you’re telling everyone that isn’t already in your group how awful they are, and using the most offensive terms you can come up with to do so. Just like the WBC, you’re absolutely convinced that your way is the only morally correct way. But you aren’t actually bringing people to your moral cause; you’re pushing them away. If you want to push people away so that you can feel self-righteous, then sure, keep doing what you’re doing.
…But if you want to persuade people, if you actually want people to change, then maybe look into what actually works.
If you cared about helping veganism you would be vegan /shrug
…And?
Do you want to make it important to me, if I’m not currently motivated to make it important to myself? If you do want to make it important to me, then how are you going to do it? Do you think that calling me the worst slurs that you can come up with is going to make me desire to change, or do you think that it’s going to make me angry and resentful towards you and the cause that you’re trying to champion? What do you think would be the most effective way to change my opinion of vaganism and of vegans, and make me desire to be a vegan?
Allow me to suggest a book that I think you might find to be useful. I’m going to assume that you have good intentions, and that you want to change the world in a way that you believe would be positive. That’s great! This might help you to find a more effective way to do it, so you can reach more people. Are you familiar with concepts of street epistemology? Many of the same concepts apply when you’re trying to persuade people.
If you don’t have any desire to make veganism important to other people, why not?
Are you vegan?
It’s always the non-vegans that know best how to get people to become vegan, lol
Almost like the people being sold something are telling the sellers exactly what they want to see. I wish selling stuff was always that easy.
Then the people here either already know what the morally correct thing to do is and are choosing not to because someone on the Internet wasn’t nice to them, making them a terrible person, or they don’t think murder and torture are bad things when done to other creatures and no amount of Internet niceties will teach them otherwise, also making them a terrible person.
Nobody is selling anything. Make a moral decision or go away.
You’re pushing an ideology. You want people to get on board for those. By the powers of synonyms, you could just as easily say you’re selling an ideology and you want people to buy in.
Reframe it in a moral or ethical framework all you want. Throw sticks, call people monsters, whatever. You’re pushing a viewpoint you want people to accept. Maybe listen to the people you’re trying to talk to when they tell you how they want to be engaged with.
This is a circle jerk community for vegans. Nobody wants to teach a bunch of adult babies how not to be a shitheel, you’re supposed to already know to participate.
Stop violating instance rules and go away. I’m sorry you aren’t getting your hand held.
The only instance rule I seem to be violating is not personally being a vegan. If shit hits all, you HAVE to expect some outsiders to pop up in your community. You don’t want them there, don’t keep engaging with them.
That’s aight, though, I’ll see myself out. I’d rather hang with people who can engage in an actual conversation instead of getting their feelings hurt at some animosity.
Smart move. I hate that this “community” keeps making it to ALL, they remind me of TheDonald with their loving and welcoming attitude.
Close your instance and we’ll stop wandering in the front door.
You could also close your face and stop promoting murder and torture, but I know that’s too hard for you sociopaths. Go jerk off in the corner secure in the knowledge that you sure owned those vegans, content in how you make the world a worse place by being in it.
When vegans can’t sell the idea of being vegan to people–with the exception of selling it to people that are already inclined that way–maybe, just maybe, they should look at their sales techniques. Think about street corner preachers that use a megaphone to tell everyone that they’re going to hell because they’re fags, whores, sodomites, trannies, baby killers, whatever slur you want to use; have they ever, even once, managed to make you consider that maybe being an evangelical Christian was right for you?
Directing slurs at people that aren’t vegan isn’t going to convince people you’re right; it’s going to make people hostile and defensive. You’re creating an in-group and an out-group; you’re reinforcing your own status as a member of the in-group, while being exclusionary of everyone that is not already part of that group, or is not sufficiently committed to that group. It’s not even effective as form of negging, because negging has to be subtle.
If you want to sell ideas to people, you need to take advice from people that successfully sell ideas from people. If you don’t, well, good luck, 'cuz your gonna need it.
Removed by mod