Copied from reddit:
Firefox CTO here.
There’s been a lot of discussion over the weekend about the origin trial for a private attribution prototype in Firefox 128. It’s clear in retrospect that we should have communicated more on this one, and so I wanted to take a minute to explain our thinking and clarify a few things. I figured I’d post this here on Reddit so it’s easy for folks to ask followup questions. I’ll do my best to address them, though I’ve got a busy week so it might take me a bit.
The Internet has become a massive web of surveillance, and doing something about it is a primary reason many of us are at Mozilla. Our historical approach to this problem has been to ship browser-based anti-tracking features designed to thwart the most common surveillance techniques. We have a pretty good track record with this approach, but it has two inherent limitations.
First, in the absence of alternatives, there are enormous economic incentives for advertisers to try to bypass these countermeasures, leading to a perpetual arms race that we may not win. Second, this approach only helps the people that choose to use Firefox, and we want to improve privacy for everyone.
This second point gets to a deeper problem with the way that privacy discourse has unfolded, which is the focus on choice and consent. Most users just accept the defaults they’re given, and framing the issue as one of individual responsibility is a great way to mollify savvy users while ensuring that most peoples’ privacy remains compromised. Cookie banners are a good example of where this thinking ends up.
Whatever opinion you may have of advertising as an economic model, it’s a powerful industry that’s not going to pack up and go away. A mechanism for advertisers to accomplish their goals in a way that did not entail gathering a bunch of personal data would be a profound improvement to the Internet we have today, and so we’ve invested a significant amount of technical effort into trying to figure it out.
The devil is in the details, and not everything that claims to be privacy-preserving actually is. We’ve published extensive analyses of how certain other proposals in this vein come up short. But rather than just taking shots, we’re also trying to design a system that actually meets the bar. We’ve been collaborating with Meta on this, because any successful mechanism will need to be actually useful to advertisers, and designing something that Mozilla and Meta are simultaneously happy with is a good indicator we’ve hit the mark.
This work has been underway for several years at the W3C’s PATCG, and is showing real promise. To inform that work, we’ve deployed an experimental prototype of this concept in Firefox 128 that is feature-wise quite bare-bones but uncompromising on the privacy front. The implementation uses a Multi-Party Computation (MPC) system called DAP/Prio (operated in partnership with ISRG) whose privacy properties have been vetted by some of the best cryptographers in the field. Feedback on the design is always welcome, but please show your work.
The prototype is temporary, restricted to a handful of test sites, and only works in Firefox. We expect it to be extremely low-volume, and its purpose is to inform the technical work in PATCG and make it more likely to succeed. It’s about measurement (aggregate counts of impressions and conversions) rather than targeting. It’s based on several years of ongoing research and standards work, and is unrelated to Anonym.
The privacy properties of this prototype are much stronger than even some garden variety features of the web platform, and unlike those of most other proposals in this space, meet our high bar for default behavior. There is a toggle to turn it off because some people object to advertising irrespective of the privacy properties, and we support people configuring their browser however they choose. That said, we consider modal consent dialogs to be a user-hostile distraction from better defaults, and do not believe such an experience would have been an improvement here.
Digital advertising is not going away, but the surveillance parts could actually go away if we get it right. A truly private attribution mechanism would make it viable for businesses to stop tracking people, and enable browsers and regulators to clamp down much more aggressively on those that continue to do so.
If you’ve got a better solution then feel free to share, but magically making everybody on Earth simultaneously decide to suddenly stop paying attention to all advertising everywhere forever is not an actual solution.
Same attitude as the people who are like “universal income should be a norm” and “dismantle US healthcare”. Like yes I agree, but you can’t just turn off an entire industry overnight. It takes years, if not decades to change.
Then when incremental progress is made they shut on it for not doing enough.
I’m all for removing fossil fuel use, but removing 20% here and there is a lot better than rejecting everything. It’s juvenile to me to think that it’s either gone or it’s not, and it’s the same here. Ads aren’t going away, it’s a naive thought to think they will. What we can do is try to make changes here and there to make it more tolerable.
irrelevant to the thread, but it actually took only 3 years for clement atlee’s government to create the UK’s national health service
It is though. I use ublock origin with Librewolf and Mull and there are zero ads plus the tracking is far less.
Okay, well good luck with your magic then. Over here in the real world I don’t personally know any mass mind control spells.
I don’t have a complete solution, but I have a vector, and this is in the opposite direction, being, according to its own claims useful to advertisers.
The solution passes through many things, but probably has to start by changing the perception of advertising as a necessary nuisance and into a needless, avoidable, and unacceptable evil. Collaboration does not help in this regard. Individual actions such as blocking advertising, refusing to accept any tracking from sites, deploying masking tools, using archives and mirrors to get content, consciously boycott any product that manages to escape the filtering, are good but insufficient.
I do all those things, but how are you planning on convincing my mom to? I’ve tried. She doesn’t care. The vast majority of people are more like my mom than like you or me. We are weirdos here, and if your plan doesn’t involve a better first step than “do a whole bunch of work to change something you’re already used to” then it is not actually going to change anything for anyone other than a few weirdos like us.
I do not care if something is useful to advertisers. I care if it reduces harm. Refusing to reduce harm to chase some distant ideal that most people don’t care about while not effectively convincing them to care is counterproductive to everything that actually matters.
I mean, sure.
To sligthly paraphrase what /u/ZephrC wrote then, do you have a useful idea for a solution? Because I can dream of utopian non-ideas, too. But while those sound cool on paper, they’re not exactly useful when actually trying to solve any real-world problem.
And good luck changing the perception about advertising on a conceptual level. While you’re at it, will you end world hunger, make worldwide peace and build a dyson sphere? Because I mean, a foundational change to how our language and interactions work (advertising isn’t exactly grounded in companies and richness, but base transactional and societal needs) sounds still a bit more difficult than those, except maybe the peace thing.
… How? You clearly do not understand this technology if you think it’s a step in the wrong direction.
Status quo: almost all ads use onerous tracking of every scrap of data they can scrape on you. Some savvy users use ad block and/or tracking blockers to avoid this to various degrees.
Mozilla PPA: Ads on certain sites start using a much less onerous attribution system which collects only anonymized data on related clicks; allowing advertisers to continue tracking how well their ads are working without any of the creepy personal data attached. Some savvy users continue to use ad block and/or tracking blockers to avoid the ads altogether.
Do you not see how the latter is objectively better for everyone except the advertisers? The fact that it’s “useful to advertisers” just means that this is tech which might actually reach wide adoption. It does absolutely nothing to impinge the effectiveness of ad and tracking blockers, but will be a big improvement for anyone who doesn’t use them.