• Maggoty@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    They’ve been there for thousands of years. Nobody gives a shit what happened thousands of years ago.

    And the “doesn’t exist” thing makes no sense. Why would you shoot at something that doesn’t exist? Of course they know Israel exists. They don’t recognize it’s legitimacy.

    Finally, repeating something doesn’t make it any more true. In fact repeating things that aren’t true is a propaganda technique to stick it in people’s heads.

    • Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷@fedi.truth-sandwich.com
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      2 months ago

      @Maggoty

      Yeah, and the Jews were there before that. Welcome to history, where the people owning a land can change.

      Fact is, Israel was formed on top of land owned by the Ottoman Empire, not the Palestinians. Britain won it as spoils of war, just like the Palestinians did long ago. Then the Palestinians went to war and lost again. It’s just not their land anymore.

      If war is a legitimate way to gain land, then Israel legitimately exists and it legitimately owns Palestine.

      (1/2)

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Again, nobody cares where the jews were when the Roman Empire existed. In that logic we need to roll back the entirety of the last several hundred years. That’s patently ridiculous.

        It’s also ridiculous to say Britain won it so now Isreal gets to exist, when the Irgun drove the British out. It’s doubly ridiculous because all of the other colonial projects from the early 1900’s have been devolved to the indigenous people. And no, you’re not indigenous to an area after living abroad for 2000 years. What makes this slice of the Ottoman empire special?

        • Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷@fedi.truth-sandwich.com
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          2 months ago

          @Maggoty

          Just like nobody cares that the Palestinians controlled this territory before they lost it. All that matters is who has it now.

          The UN decided to partition Mandatory Palestine, with part of it forming Israel and the other forming an independent Palestine. However, the Palestinians rejected this, went to war, and lost.

          When you go to war and lose, it’s not your land anymore.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            It’s also not the 1700s anymore. We don’t do the whole wars of conquering land anymore. Israel does not get a pass on that.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Remind me again, how well did that work out for Germany and Russia? They held on to all that land? No? Oh but what about World War 1? Oh that all devolved to local rule or was handled after World War 2? Your best argument here is Poland’s radical shift in territory but it was a nebulous concept at best for several hundred years and the territory they shifted onto was literally right next to them, not across an ocean with an entirely different culture already there. So maybe not the comparison you want to make unless you like the idea of inviting Egypt, Syria, and Iran to part out Israel.

                • @Maggoty

                  You’re Gish galloping.

                  The actual issue is whether, contrary to Iran’s slur, Israel is a legitimate nation with a legal right to exist. It is and does, as it was created by the highest international authority.

                  Cherry-picking historical partitions (thus avoiding India/Pakistan) is a dishonest change of topic.

                  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    Gish galloping? What in there was a lie? Words have meaning sir. We live in a society.

                    And if you want to bring in the British then fine, they did that without consulting anyone, it was not the preferred solution by anyone except extremists and it resulted in wars and ethnic cleansing. Oh hey look it’s just like Palestine! There’s a pattern here…

                    And clearly the people Israel is currently genociding do not care what the Un said about Israel 70 years ago. They aren’t going to see an apartheid state oppressing them as legitimate. Nor should they. After all Germany was a country too and I’m pretty sure the German Jews didn’t consider Hitler taking power in a river of blood as legitimate either. Legitimacy is something you can lose, especially if it was tenuous in the first place. Like say, if someone was to keep fighting you for 70 years over it.

      • Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷@fedi.truth-sandwich.com
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        2 months ago

        @Maggoty

        Iran denies the legitimacy of Israel. They say it doesn’t have any right to exist and their goal is to make it cease to exist, through genocide.

        That is why, once again, refusing to call Israel “Israel” and instead calling it the “Zionist state” is a slur and a genocidal threat.

        Repeatedly ignoring irrefutable facts is bullshit. Stop bullshitting.

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