Ok let me just be direct then so you animal-abusing fuckheads stop playing word games with me like redditors
Leave the fucking animals alone. They are not built to carry your dumb ass around. It causes pain and stress and long-term medical problems. The animal, even if you abuse it into allowing you to do this, cannot give informed consent for it because it cannot be made aware of the long-term risks associated with the act. No person who truly cares about animals would use them as vehicles.
you’ve made an argument based on the word you can’t suddenly be precious and pretend it’s somehow off limits to interrogate that! reddit=actually replying to the argument you’ve made, not the (unstated!) moral assumptions you have behind it
i don’t ride horses, dipshit. you did not address what i said whatsoever, i can appreciate animal cruelty can make someone angry but your reply was disproportionate and unpleasant.
You don’t see why I find it unreasonable and dishonest to compare the use of the term “housebreaking” to refer to training a dog to not shit in the house (beneficial to the dog, detrimental to no one) to the use of the term “breaking” to refer to abusing a horse into allowing you to ride it (detrimental to the horse, beneficial to you)
Not only is the term different, because in housebreaking a dog you are “breaking” the behavior and not the animal, but the act itself is so dissimilar that there is no reason to compare them except as a dishonest way of defending animal abuse
i can appreciate animal cruelty can make someone angry but your reply was disproportionate and unpleasant.
My reply was proportionate to your defense of animal abuse which is far more unpleasant than any insults I could ever come up with to throw at you (all of which would be deserved)
Finally, yes I dispensed with the semantic arguments in my previous reply because it doesn’t fucking matter. The semantics are not the point. I didn’t want to get into the weeds about this. The point is that if you defend or attempt to normalize the abuse of horses then you fucking suck.
Also you call the “moral implications” of my comments “unstated” and honestly I don’t see how you could possibly be commenting in good faith if you think that. Re-read my comments. My top level comment in this thread explicitly calls out horse riders as animal abusers and mocks them for justifying it. If you think I left the moral argument “unstated” and that this conversation has always been about the fucking semantics it’s only because you are in denial and want the conversation to be about semantics.
this comparison is dishonest? it’s the same fucking word. don’t play ‘word games’ unless it’s me pretending slapping a noun on a verb completely removes all context and meaning from it
yes I dispensed with the semantic arguments
if only you actually had
in housebreaking a dog you are “breaking” the behavior and not the animal
defend this. where is it written that when people say ‘housebreak’ for dogs they are very specifically talking about behavior but ‘break’ a horse is totally not related to the behavior of bucking riders and in fact, exclusive to the subjugation of the natural character of the horse. is shitting inside not a natural behavior of dogs?
the act itself is so dissimilar that there is no reason to compare them
ah yeah, people never coerce or use violence on dogs to train them. utterly unheard of
training a dog to not shit in the house (beneficial to the dog, detrimental to no one)
defend this. what benefit does a dog get from not being allowed to shit where it pleases
Shitting inside is not the natural behavior of a dog but there is a difference between holding a poop in until you go outside and carrying a person on your back. If someone isn’t bringing their dog out to poop and forcing them to hold it in to an uncomfortable point it’s comparable to riding horses. I don’t see how the situation benefits the dog here, but it is dog-neutral as long as you aren’t being specifically negligent or abusive. The act of riding the horse is abuse in itself. So one is teaching a behavior that is for your convenience but doesn’t harm the animal and the other harms the animal. I’m sure there are etyomolgical similarities between breaking a horse and housebreaking a pet but housebreaking has turned into a more colloquial term distinct from ‘breaking’ a horse. Words being the same doesn’t really mean much when the context of their use is clearly different. A well seasoned solider isn’t one who’s covered in cumin and tarragon and a well seasoned meal hadn’t fought many battles.
A well seasoned solider isn’t one who’s covered in cumin and tarragon and a well seasoned meal hadn’t fought many battles
this is the core of a fantastic joke with a lil set up
So one is teaching a behavior that is for your convenience but doesn’t harm the animal and the other harms the animal
this is where the trouble is. from a human perspective i recognize a distinct similarity, but i am not veterinarian enough to make a judgement on how true that is from a biological standpoint. does the weight of people/cargo on an equine make it so? is pulling a wagon as damaging as putting things on their back? how often are these activities done, does that matter?
i don’t expect you to answer those, i just have a bit of skepticism around this from studying people with very fundamental relationships with horses on the steppe. it’s hard to imagine that horses have had a place below and less care than other animals in societies that prised them so much, y’know?
I’m gonna be workshopping this seasoned soldier joke for a while. I feel like maybe we could tie it in with Biden’s fabulisms about his uncle being eaten by cannibals
Care is irrelevant here, riding horses is really bad for them, same with making them pull stuff. Plain and simple. For riding, it’s a lot of weight constantly on their spine and for hauling carts and stuff, that’s physical labor a horse was never meant to do. I was gonna say we don’t industrialized dogs, but we do and did even more in the past but the majority of dogs that people have now are mostly just there to be pals, that evolution never happened when cars replaced horses, we stopped needing dogs as useful hunting and gathering pals but we still enjoyed their company where it seems any attachment to a horse is based mostly around the riding of it. And like, I raised huskies and have had them lead a sled and had the youngest one we raised learn to haul me around on a skateboard when we moved into town, so I’m not totally innocent here, but well and this is my personal observation here, the huskies really really wanted to do it and the horses I’ve seen have seemed less enthusiastic
I don’t see how the situation benefits the dog here,
Seriously? You don’t think that it is detrimental to any animal to live in its own shit? I expected “show me some scientific evidence that it is good for a dog not to have to live in a pile of its own feces” from the dishonest animal abuse supporting dipshits but I didn’t expect it from you
I really thought that anyone arguing in good faith would take for granted that teaching a dog to go outside to poop is beneficial to the dog in the same way that it is beneficial to a child to teach it to poop in the toilet
I agree it does benefit the dog that way, but that is only because you’re also keeping a dog indoors more than it probably wants to for your own convenience which I figure kinda evens it out. I guess I also assumed the owner would clean up the indoor dog shit cause they would have to live with the same pile
Genuine question, why does it so upset you that I don’t want to host a scored and moderated debate about this semantic point you refuse to let go of that I have said multiple times that I was never interested in? Every single time I tried to redirect the conversation to what actually mattered to me the entire time, you came back harder on the semantics. The one time I actually indulged you and got into the weeds about the semantics, you mocked me for doing so. Why the hell would I even consider this discussion with you after all of this behavior was considered together? It is on a topic I don’t care about, with a person who is defending something I find indefensible and disgusting, who is defending it in ways that are dishonest, and who has only been an asshole to me even when I engaged as you seemingly desired.
In short, there are two wolves inside you. Both of them are redditors. Evict them.
That’s why you have to “break” them in order to get them to let you climb on, because they just naturally love it so much
we use the same language to describe teaching a dog not to shit inside ‘housebreak’. we don’t typically imbue that with a negative association.
Ok let me just be direct then so you animal-abusing fuckheads stop playing word games with me like redditors
Leave the fucking animals alone. They are not built to carry your dumb ass around. It causes pain and stress and long-term medical problems. The animal, even if you abuse it into allowing you to do this, cannot give informed consent for it because it cannot be made aware of the long-term risks associated with the act. No person who truly cares about animals would use them as vehicles.
you’ve made an argument based on the word you can’t suddenly be precious and pretend it’s somehow off limits to interrogate that! reddit=actually replying to the argument you’ve made, not the (unstated!) moral assumptions you have behind it
i don’t ride horses, dipshit. you did not address what i said whatsoever, i can appreciate animal cruelty can make someone angry but your reply was disproportionate and unpleasant.
You don’t see why I find it unreasonable and dishonest to compare the use of the term “housebreaking” to refer to training a dog to not shit in the house (beneficial to the dog, detrimental to no one) to the use of the term “breaking” to refer to abusing a horse into allowing you to ride it (detrimental to the horse, beneficial to you)
Not only is the term different, because in housebreaking a dog you are “breaking” the behavior and not the animal, but the act itself is so dissimilar that there is no reason to compare them except as a dishonest way of defending animal abuse
My reply was proportionate to your defense of animal abuse which is far more unpleasant than any insults I could ever come up with to throw at you (all of which would be deserved)
Finally, yes I dispensed with the semantic arguments in my previous reply because it doesn’t fucking matter. The semantics are not the point. I didn’t want to get into the weeds about this. The point is that if you defend or attempt to normalize the abuse of horses then you fucking suck.
Also you call the “moral implications” of my comments “unstated” and honestly I don’t see how you could possibly be commenting in good faith if you think that. Re-read my comments. My top level comment in this thread explicitly calls out horse riders as animal abusers and mocks them for justifying it. If you think I left the moral argument “unstated” and that this conversation has always been about the fucking semantics it’s only because you are in denial and want the conversation to be about semantics.
this comparison is dishonest? it’s the same fucking word. don’t play ‘word games’ unless it’s me pretending slapping a noun on a verb completely removes all context and meaning from it
if only you actually had
defend this. where is it written that when people say ‘housebreak’ for dogs they are very specifically talking about behavior but ‘break’ a horse is totally not related to the behavior of bucking riders and in fact, exclusive to the subjugation of the natural character of the horse. is shitting inside not a natural behavior of dogs?
ah yeah, people never coerce or use violence on dogs to train them. utterly unheard of
defend this. what benefit does a dog get from not being allowed to shit where it pleases
Shitting inside is not the natural behavior of a dog but there is a difference between holding a poop in until you go outside and carrying a person on your back. If someone isn’t bringing their dog out to poop and forcing them to hold it in to an uncomfortable point it’s comparable to riding horses. I don’t see how the situation benefits the dog here, but it is dog-neutral as long as you aren’t being specifically negligent or abusive. The act of riding the horse is abuse in itself. So one is teaching a behavior that is for your convenience but doesn’t harm the animal and the other harms the animal. I’m sure there are etyomolgical similarities between breaking a horse and housebreaking a pet but housebreaking has turned into a more colloquial term distinct from ‘breaking’ a horse. Words being the same doesn’t really mean much when the context of their use is clearly different. A well seasoned solider isn’t one who’s covered in cumin and tarragon and a well seasoned meal hadn’t fought many battles.
this is the core of a fantastic joke with a lil set up
this is where the trouble is. from a human perspective i recognize a distinct similarity, but i am not veterinarian enough to make a judgement on how true that is from a biological standpoint. does the weight of people/cargo on an equine make it so? is pulling a wagon as damaging as putting things on their back? how often are these activities done, does that matter?
i don’t expect you to answer those, i just have a bit of skepticism around this from studying people with very fundamental relationships with horses on the steppe. it’s hard to imagine that horses have had a place below and less care than other animals in societies that prised them so much, y’know?
I’m gonna be workshopping this seasoned soldier joke for a while. I feel like maybe we could tie it in with Biden’s fabulisms about his uncle being eaten by cannibals
Care is irrelevant here, riding horses is really bad for them, same with making them pull stuff. Plain and simple. For riding, it’s a lot of weight constantly on their spine and for hauling carts and stuff, that’s physical labor a horse was never meant to do. I was gonna say we don’t industrialized dogs, but we do and did even more in the past but the majority of dogs that people have now are mostly just there to be pals, that evolution never happened when cars replaced horses, we stopped needing dogs as useful hunting and gathering pals but we still enjoyed their company where it seems any attachment to a horse is based mostly around the riding of it. And like, I raised huskies and have had them lead a sled and had the youngest one we raised learn to haul me around on a skateboard when we moved into town, so I’m not totally innocent here, but well and this is my personal observation here, the huskies really really wanted to do it and the horses I’ve seen have seemed less enthusiastic
Seriously? You don’t think that it is detrimental to any animal to live in its own shit? I expected “show me some scientific evidence that it is good for a dog not to have to live in a pile of its own feces” from the dishonest animal abuse supporting dipshits but I didn’t expect it from you
I really thought that anyone arguing in good faith would take for granted that teaching a dog to go outside to poop is beneficial to the dog in the same way that it is beneficial to a child to teach it to poop in the toilet
I agree it does benefit the dog that way, but that is only because you’re also keeping a dog indoors more than it probably wants to for your own convenience which I figure kinda evens it out. I guess I also assumed the owner would clean up the indoor dog shit cause they would have to live with the same pile
I’m done playing reddit debatebro with you. Fuck off. Stop defending animal abuse.
Genuine question, why does it so upset you that I don’t want to host a scored and moderated debate about this semantic point you refuse to let go of that I have said multiple times that I was never interested in? Every single time I tried to redirect the conversation to what actually mattered to me the entire time, you came back harder on the semantics. The one time I actually indulged you and got into the weeds about the semantics, you mocked me for doing so. Why the hell would I even consider this discussion with you after all of this behavior was considered together? It is on a topic I don’t care about, with a person who is defending something I find indefensible and disgusting, who is defending it in ways that are dishonest, and who has only been an asshole to me even when I engaged as you seemingly desired.
In short, there are two wolves inside you. Both of them are redditors. Evict them.
