I’m here to take the religious meme too seriously.
I’m 100% all with preaching equality, and just as much with helping out your local sex workers (not buying their… services. You know what I mean by “helping out”).
But Jesus did not incite anarchism, quite the opposite. He asks us to obey the laws, whether they’re Godly or otherwise (as long as they don’t go against the laws of Christ, as is demonstrated in the book of Daniel). Without the very human traffic laws that God didn’t find important to discuss in the Bible, there would be actual anarchy, and coming from a country that is without traffic law enforcement, I can tell you, no Christian would vouch for this.
Other things Christ would love for you to do this Christmas (or any day of the year). Pass out food to homeless people, better yet, get to know one and invite them over for a meal in a warm home with good company and social support. Regardless of your views, support a kid who’s a member from the LGBTQ+ community who might be rejected by their parents. If you’re an employer, reach out to any employees who live far from family and invite them over for some baked goods, a meal, and some good conversation and fun. If you’re a student (like myself), reach out and setup a mini potluck where everyone brings something.
Christ didn’t ask that we hate anyone. Christ asks to spread love, and with the cold weather and festive spirits, there is plenty of room to spread love.
As OP said: you have a wrong understanding what anarchism means. No big deal, it’s a very misunderstood ideology. But since you’re the kind of person who likes to write a few paragraphs on how a religious meme is wrong: You might be interested in what anarchism stands for. You’ll find it’s quite compatible with Jesus’s teachings
He asks us to obey the laws, whether they’re Godly or otherwise
He said to give the emperor what’s his and god what’s his. Clearly he meant giving up the colonizer’s monetary system and live in harmony with your brothers and sisters, which is honoring god.
Other things Christ would love for you to do this Christmas (or any day of the year). Pass out food to homeless people, better yet, get to know one and invite them over for a meal in a warm home with good company and social support. Regardless of your views, support a kid who’s a member from the LGBTQ+ community who might be rejected by their parents.
That’s literally what anarchists mean by mutual aid.
Thanks for the link, seems like an interesting read. Anarchism is severely misrepresented by the media, I knew it wasn’t exactly the Purge but I always imagined it as such. Do you have any interesting fiction books in mind that represent anarchism well? Something along the lines of 1984 and that type of book.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, but I want to preface this by saying I’ve just spent the last several months absolutely feasting on Kropotkin, Bertrand Russel, Leguin, Chomsky, and Graeber, and generally learning about anarchism as an ideology. I think anarchism is really the only political ideology that actually makes sense of the political and economic upheavals of the last 200 years (rather than say, Capitalism vs Communism, Democracy vs Authority), and it reconciles a lot of issues that people on the right have about people on the left and vise versa.
But one of the issues with anarchism is that it was only popularized as a legitimate political ideology around Bakunin’s time – ~1850s. When proponents like yours and myself and OP (I think Chomsky also described it like this) describe anarchism, it’s through the groundwork laid by those who popularized it in the 19th century.
When I learned about things like mutual aid and non-coercive participation, I thought “Wow, anarchism is so misunderstood. It seems the definition has really gotten away from us, similar to the definition of communism,” but then I listened to Plato’s The Republic and Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, and they actually use anarchism with the negative connotation that it still has today! I can’t quote verbatim, but they say things like “If X happens, society will fall into anarchy,” like it is synonymous with chaos.
So I guess my point is that we have a more fleshed out definition of anarchism due to the thinkers of the 19th century, but the classical idea of anarchism (ie chaos) still persists. In that sense, I don’t think the OP really misunderstands it, but hasn’t been exposed to what anarchism means as a political ideology outside the classical definition that really is just a synonym for chaos.
Edit: Some of my details are wrong. Anarchism gained traction in Western political thought during the 18th century. Bakunin was an influential figure, but he was preceded by others, such as Proudhon. This is just from reading the wikipedia page. Still, I think its understandable why people still attach anarchism with chaos, because we have philosophers like Socrates and Aristotle (at least in English translations, but then again, the word “anarchism” is derived from Ancient Greek, anyway) using the word in that way.
We don’t use the opinions of Aristotle or Plato to reference other contemporary political systems. While what you say might be true: it’s still very convenient for those currently in power to maintain this wrong/anachronistic definition of anarchy/anarchism.
Hmm…I have to think about your first statement. I agree to the extent in that our modern political systems are more derived from Roman republic rather than Athenian democracy. Still, I guess my point was that there was a classical idea of anarchism before the thinkers of the 18th and 19th centuries, and I don’t blame people for retaining the negative connotation. Especially because, like you said, that idea is apt to be perpetuated by the ruling class.
When I was reading Chomsky and Graeber, I kinda dismissed them at first because I was a liberal and “anarchism bad.” Nobody is really being called an idiot here, which is great, but I’m happy I had a chance to learn more about it before I went online and made a fool of myself.
Edit: Honestly I’m reading my comment over and I think I’m splitting hairs/being pedantic about “misunderstanding” anarchism. But I’m happy that in your response to them you’ve been completely kind and understanding to them
The only thing illegal in that meme is whipping politicians. But that is a reference to when Jesus braided a whip and beat the shit out of some merchants while flipping tables.
The meme is taking religion seriously. If Jesus didn’t want us to whip capitalists or flip tables of their merchandise (politicians) he wouldn’t have done so himself.
I’m here to take the religious meme too seriously.
I’m 100% all with preaching equality, and just as much with helping out your local sex workers (not buying their… services. You know what I mean by “helping out”). But Jesus did not incite anarchism, quite the opposite. He asks us to obey the laws, whether they’re Godly or otherwise (as long as they don’t go against the laws of Christ, as is demonstrated in the book of Daniel). Without the very human traffic laws that God didn’t find important to discuss in the Bible, there would be actual anarchy, and coming from a country that is without traffic law enforcement, I can tell you, no Christian would vouch for this.
Other things Christ would love for you to do this Christmas (or any day of the year). Pass out food to homeless people, better yet, get to know one and invite them over for a meal in a warm home with good company and social support. Regardless of your views, support a kid who’s a member from the LGBTQ+ community who might be rejected by their parents. If you’re an employer, reach out to any employees who live far from family and invite them over for some baked goods, a meal, and some good conversation and fun. If you’re a student (like myself), reach out and setup a mini potluck where everyone brings something.
Christ didn’t ask that we hate anyone. Christ asks to spread love, and with the cold weather and festive spirits, there is plenty of room to spread love.
Anarchism doesn’t mean what you think it means.
It appears it doesn’t at all! Thanks for all the replies, I have a lot of reading to do!
Freedom only happens when we meet eye to eye with our fellow man. One more. :)
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-are-you-an-anarchist-the-answer-may-surprise-you
As OP said: you have a wrong understanding what anarchism means. No big deal, it’s a very misunderstood ideology. But since you’re the kind of person who likes to write a few paragraphs on how a religious meme is wrong: You might be interested in what anarchism stands for. You’ll find it’s quite compatible with Jesus’s teachings
He said to give the emperor what’s his and god what’s his. Clearly he meant giving up the colonizer’s monetary system and live in harmony with your brothers and sisters, which is honoring god.
That’s literally what anarchists mean by mutual aid.
Looks like I gotta watch Porco Rosso
Thanks for the link, seems like an interesting read. Anarchism is severely misrepresented by the media, I knew it wasn’t exactly the Purge but I always imagined it as such. Do you have any interesting fiction books in mind that represent anarchism well? Something along the lines of 1984 and that type of book.
You’re in luck! “The Disposessed” by Ursula K LeGuin is an amazing book and exactly what you’re looking for.
Thanks!
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, but I want to preface this by saying I’ve just spent the last several months absolutely feasting on Kropotkin, Bertrand Russel, Leguin, Chomsky, and Graeber, and generally learning about anarchism as an ideology. I think anarchism is really the only political ideology that actually makes sense of the political and economic upheavals of the last 200 years (rather than say, Capitalism vs Communism, Democracy vs Authority), and it reconciles a lot of issues that people on the right have about people on the left and vise versa.
But one of the issues with anarchism is that it was only popularized as a legitimate political ideology around Bakunin’s time – ~1850s. When proponents like yours and myself and OP (I think Chomsky also described it like this) describe anarchism, it’s through the groundwork laid by those who popularized it in the 19th century.
When I learned about things like mutual aid and non-coercive participation, I thought “Wow, anarchism is so misunderstood. It seems the definition has really gotten away from us, similar to the definition of communism,” but then I listened to Plato’s The Republic and Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, and they actually use anarchism with the negative connotation that it still has today! I can’t quote verbatim, but they say things like “If X happens, society will fall into anarchy,” like it is synonymous with chaos.
So I guess my point is that we have a more fleshed out definition of anarchism due to the thinkers of the 19th century, but the classical idea of anarchism (ie chaos) still persists. In that sense, I don’t think the OP really misunderstands it, but hasn’t been exposed to what anarchism means as a political ideology outside the classical definition that really is just a synonym for chaos.
Edit: Some of my details are wrong. Anarchism gained traction in Western political thought during the 18th century. Bakunin was an influential figure, but he was preceded by others, such as Proudhon. This is just from reading the wikipedia page. Still, I think its understandable why people still attach anarchism with chaos, because we have philosophers like Socrates and Aristotle (at least in English translations, but then again, the word “anarchism” is derived from Ancient Greek, anyway) using the word in that way.
We don’t use the opinions of Aristotle or Plato to reference other contemporary political systems. While what you say might be true: it’s still very convenient for those currently in power to maintain this wrong/anachronistic definition of anarchy/anarchism.
Hmm…I have to think about your first statement. I agree to the extent in that our modern political systems are more derived from Roman republic rather than Athenian democracy. Still, I guess my point was that there was a classical idea of anarchism before the thinkers of the 18th and 19th centuries, and I don’t blame people for retaining the negative connotation. Especially because, like you said, that idea is apt to be perpetuated by the ruling class.
When I was reading Chomsky and Graeber, I kinda dismissed them at first because I was a liberal and “anarchism bad.” Nobody is really being called an idiot here, which is great, but I’m happy I had a chance to learn more about it before I went online and made a fool of myself.
Edit: Honestly I’m reading my comment over and I think I’m splitting hairs/being pedantic about “misunderstanding” anarchism. But I’m happy that in your response to them you’ve been completely kind and understanding to them
The only thing illegal in that meme is whipping politicians. But that is a reference to when Jesus braided a whip and beat the shit out of some merchants while flipping tables.
The meme is taking religion seriously. If Jesus didn’t want us to whip capitalists or flip tables of their merchandise (politicians) he wouldn’t have done so himself.