Privacy advocates got access to Locate X, a phone tracking tool which multiple U.S. agencies have bought access to, and showed me and other journalists exactly what it was capable of. Tracking a phone from one state to another to an abortion clinic. Multiple places of worship. A school. Following a likely juror to a residence. And all of this tracking is possible without a warrant, and instead just a few clicks of a mouse.

  • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    Or, you know, let the gov work for you, not against you, & fully expect people to get jailed if they track you.

    It’s a matter of perspective what the minimum standard should be.

    Especially when a personal device like a phone is basically necessary for a normal life and even public services.

      • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        Yes, imho, and increasingly so.
        In an environment where the vast majority has one people act like everyone has one (eg restaurants having qr links to menus).

        Even EU ruled as much (eg my company phone is my own personal device regardless of ownership & my privacy is protected differently than eg my work PC or laptop).

        And even if this wasn’t the case, why would you need to opt out of having a mobile phone just to get basic privacy?

      • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        1 month ago

        Unfortunately yes, and I would go even a step further and say a smart phone is a basic necessity. More and more companies and even government services are operating on the assumption that everyone has a smart phone. I have encountered various services where if a person didn’t have a smart phone they literally can’t use it. I even have personal experience with it.

        My landlord uses a company for payments that can only be interacted with via an app on a smart phone. There is no web portal option. There is no option to mail a check. There is no option to setup a direct bank transfer. I was essentially strong armed into it since the place itself was (and still is) better than almost anything else I saw and is a reasonable price.

          • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 month ago

            Are we talking about me specifically or people in general? I’ll assume general as I was just relaying a personal anecdote to show that my point/thesis wasn’t just a hypothetical as I do know how to get around it in my specific case.

            In the general context, that’s not a great solution for most people as it is beyond their skill or time set. For the most disadvantaged people just having the ability to have a phone at all and a place to reliably charge it is an issue. There is also the issue is practicality. When I take public transit where I live, the app pulls up a QR code on my phone they gets scanned. I’m not even sure I could fit my laptop screen into the space to scan the QR code if I was emulating Android.

            So I guess my thesis here is that systems should be made more accessible and inclusive rather than requiring those in the minority to either have to put more effort in using a workaround to reach functional parity or end up left out all together.

          • LordCrom@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 month ago

            Gov agencies require 2 factor to a cell phone. Land lines dont work and VoIP lines with texting also don’t work. The only option is to use snail mail and have sensitive data sent via post office

            • LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              1 month ago

              If I were stuck in that position, then I would not hesitate to choose the postage method. That being an option does not comport with the assertion “if a person didn’t have a smart phone they literally can’t use it”.

              • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 month ago

                I respect your stubbornness in that regard, but understand that in such a situation you’re putting yourself in a position of significant friction, possibly costing yourself income, promotions etc.

                I learned very quickly by playing the game by the unofficial rules and expectations things are way easier and my quality of life is much improved. Stubbornness won’t change the system, but it will certainly annoy people and slow down your access to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. If that’s a trade off you’re willing to make so be it, but personally I’d rather enjoy my life than die on hills that very few people so much as glance at.

                • LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 month ago

                  FWIW you’re talking to someone who doesn’t even have a credit score. You might see such things as a self-handicap, but I consider it an accomplishment that I’m very proud of.

            • LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              1 month ago

              A millennial not having a cell phone is such an unimaginable concept?

              For whatever it’s worth, I do use SIP software telephony in order to make calls and receive texts, so in that way I do technically have a “phone”. But what I’m fundamentally rejecting here is the notion that I must be compelled to carry around a device in my pocket infested with proprietary malware.

      • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        You can answer this yourself. Get rid of your phone and see. If you beleive it’s not a necessity, don’t say “yeah I could do these alternative things to get by”. Actually do it. I hope you’re not job-shopping

        • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 month ago

          Yes, the impact on quality of life is just so significant that it’s a handicap to normal daily lives.

        • LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 month ago

          The above being a rhetorical question, I just wanted to take a temperature of the room.

          I have lived without a phone pretty much all my adult life. The experiment for me would be to get a phone and see what changes. In that way, I have answered it for myself and the answer is a clear “you don’t need a phone”.

      • bitwolf@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 month ago

        Considering nearly everything requires a phone number and also rejects VoIP numbers? Yes. A phone is required now to participate in society.

        • LunchMoneyThief@links.hackliberty.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          You and I must live in two different societies then. I work with at least two other individuals who also don’t have a cell phone (not just smart phone, but any cellular device), one of whom is also a millennial. My SIP number has never had any issues with online service auth.

          • Entropywins@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            1 month ago

            We absolutely do the society I live in even the homeless have cell phones and I haven’t ran into anyone without one in decades

      • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 month ago

        Depends on where you are really. Small towns everything is cash or a phonecall to a person from any phone (it’s really like stepping back in time about 15 years) but in larger cities you might find yourself required to use an app to unlock your apartment or office door or buy a train ticket or pay for a parking space, or buy a bus ticket or hail a taxi. In work I’ve needed a phone for 2FA in my last 3 jobs (granted in IT that’s probably for the best) and in college they distribute resources on the school website via big in-person QR codes.

        While every single one of those things almost always has a non-smartphone option, it increases friction significantly, and then you’re the annoying person who is slowing everything down by not doing something the way everyone else does, however in a workplace they’ll often simply provide you with a phone because that’s easier than going to the trouble of ensuring every edgecase is covered and ensuring fair compensation for requiring you to have a phone.