it’s a salient example of the strategy i’m talking about. this isn’t a natural consequence of having groups.
there’s no way the mods think that a vegan who would prefer a vegan restaurant adds a couple meat items over them closing entirely “was never really a vegan” and should be banned.
and likewise, there’s no way people think that dra**** is a real pronoun that that person actually identifies as, and people discrediting that are anti-people’s gender identity.
it’s exactly the same thing.
it’s concern trolling.
Are you trolling right now? The mod thought you were.
People think and do dumb shit all the time completely genuinely. Just because something seems crazy to you doesn’t mean it seems crazy to everyone. We all have a different perspective.
You have a point on the concern trolling, but fwiw I think you could characterize the vegan situation a bit differently - read e.g. https://sopuli.xyz/post/21265293/13960349. Whether we agree with their position or not, they do have one, and it behooves the cause of finding truth to characterize it as accurately as possible.
i think it’s the same thing, but they do have a toe to stand on with the vegan one…
but with the mods banning people with a note saying “you were never a real vegan”… i find that incredulous and more likely concern trolling than just being an asshole.
actual vegans don’t talk like that.
What? Actual vegans definitely talk like that. Not just online, in real life. I have personally heard vegans say the same thing. It isn’t even just a small handful. I know a decent number of vegans out here. Some of them are friends and relatives, so I spend time with them in restaurants, bars, and other shared spaces as well as private spaces.
The ones that are part of my life by choice are the sorts that don’t treat being vegan like a crusade, they make their life choice, and live it with strength and their own actions without making it about imposing their beliefs on others.
And I have personally been present when some of them were verbally attacked for that. By vegans. The exact phrase “you aren’t a real vegan” has been used in my presence by vegans to vegans. Also, “you’re just a vegetarian, you don’t really care about animals” because the target simply wasn’t willing to fuss and fight non vegans over a difference in belief.
Hell, you just drew a gatekeeping line by saying “actual vegans don’t talk like that”. So, if you’re a vegan, you just talked like that, even though it wasn’t the same gatekeeping.
It’s not exactly the same thing, imho, and I say this as neither a vegan nor entirely a fan of how that situation was handled. In large part not bc of what you are saying but the confrontational nature of how you are saying it. So now you call them an asshole, and they call you one in return… and at that point, regardless of whether you were initially right or wrong, wouldn’t that confrontation have justified the removal of your comment, from this community?
The latter point does surprise me a bit tbh - normally this community is quite open to challenges, even to the very mods themselves, e.g. you see that this very post is still up. Btw there’s also !fediverselore@lemmy.ca if you ever need it, linked to in the sidebar of this community. My point is that there is no shortage of spaces to complain about PTB mods, though your words will carry more weight if people are able to be more receptive of them, for which it tends to help to make less loaded statements as “they are all assholes” and more like “I highly disagree with their position, what about you?”
If somebody asks me to refer to drag that way, I’ll just do it. Why not?
If drag’s fun to be around, I might hang out, if drag sucks or is boring, I’ll move on and talk to somebody else.
I wouldn’t take multiple days out of my life to scream about how “they don’t really mean it” or how it breaks a rule my first grade teacher taught me about grammar.
I wouldn’t take multiple days out of my life to scream about how “they don’t really mean it” or how it breaks a rule my first grade teacher taught me about grammar.
nobody’s doing that… and i will take anyone’s gender identity and preferred pronouns seriously if they are serious….
otherwise it’s just that same old conservative transphobic joke, “my preferred pronoun is <<insert some sarcastic term here>>”.
Look, I lived in the pre-internet days. I can tell you it’s fucking tribalism, because it was exactly the same in small community groups before the internet.
i understand what you’re saying and i disagree with your conclusion. i know that sort of thing does happen organically… but i don’t think it gets that absurd that quickly… usually
it’s a salient example of the strategy i’m talking about. this isn’t a natural consequence of having groups.
there’s no way the mods think that a vegan who would prefer a vegan restaurant adds a couple meat items over them closing entirely “was never really a vegan” and should be banned.
and likewise, there’s no way people think that dra**** is a real pronoun that that person actually identifies as, and people discrediting that are anti-people’s gender identity.
it’s exactly the same thing.
it’s concern trolling.
Are you trolling right now? The mod thought you were.
People think and do dumb shit all the time completely genuinely. Just because something seems crazy to you doesn’t mean it seems crazy to everyone. We all have a different perspective.
they could be crazy, but i they’re crazy like a fox
You have a point on the concern trolling, but fwiw I think you could characterize the vegan situation a bit differently - read e.g. https://sopuli.xyz/post/21265293/13960349. Whether we agree with their position or not, they do have one, and it behooves the cause of finding truth to characterize it as accurately as possible.
i think it’s the same thing, but they do have a toe to stand on with the vegan one…
but with the mods banning people with a note saying “you were never a real vegan”… i find that incredulous and more likely concern trolling than just being an asshole.
actual vegans don’t talk like that.
What? Actual vegans definitely talk like that. Not just online, in real life. I have personally heard vegans say the same thing. It isn’t even just a small handful. I know a decent number of vegans out here. Some of them are friends and relatives, so I spend time with them in restaurants, bars, and other shared spaces as well as private spaces.
The ones that are part of my life by choice are the sorts that don’t treat being vegan like a crusade, they make their life choice, and live it with strength and their own actions without making it about imposing their beliefs on others.
And I have personally been present when some of them were verbally attacked for that. By vegans. The exact phrase “you aren’t a real vegan” has been used in my presence by vegans to vegans. Also, “you’re just a vegetarian, you don’t really care about animals” because the target simply wasn’t willing to fuss and fight non vegans over a difference in belief.
Hell, you just drew a gatekeeping line by saying “actual vegans don’t talk like that”. So, if you’re a vegan, you just talked like that, even though it wasn’t the same gatekeeping.
Removed by mod
It’s not exactly the same thing, imho, and I say this as neither a vegan nor entirely a fan of how that situation was handled. In large part not bc of what you are saying but the confrontational nature of how you are saying it. So now you call them an asshole, and they call you one in return… and at that point, regardless of whether you were initially right or wrong, wouldn’t that confrontation have justified the removal of your comment, from this community?
The latter point does surprise me a bit tbh - normally this community is quite open to challenges, even to the very mods themselves, e.g. you see that this very post is still up. Btw there’s also !fediverselore@lemmy.ca if you ever need it, linked to in the sidebar of this community. My point is that there is no shortage of spaces to complain about PTB mods, though your words will carry more weight if people are able to be more receptive of them, for which it tends to help to make less loaded statements as “they are all assholes” and more like “I highly disagree with their position, what about you?”
If somebody asks me to refer to drag that way, I’ll just do it. Why not?
If drag’s fun to be around, I might hang out, if drag sucks or is boring, I’ll move on and talk to somebody else.
I wouldn’t take multiple days out of my life to scream about how “they don’t really mean it” or how it breaks a rule my first grade teacher taught me about grammar.
nobody’s doing that… and i will take anyone’s gender identity and preferred pronouns seriously if they are serious….
otherwise it’s just that same old conservative transphobic joke, “my preferred pronoun is <<insert some sarcastic term here>>”.
And yet here we are days later and I see people apparently very upset about pronouns because they know drag doesn’t really mean it.
If drag is a troll, take a second to think about who is feeding the troll in these threads…
my concern was mods banning people in support of this troll
Look, I lived in the pre-internet days. I can tell you it’s fucking tribalism, because it was exactly the same in small community groups before the internet.
i understand what you’re saying and i disagree with your conclusion. i know that sort of thing does happen organically… but i don’t think it gets that absurd that quickly… usually