I’m just here to note what a difference in comments and votes comparing this post vs the “they’re the same picture” post you posted in the memes community, even though both communities are in lemmy.world
In other news. Water is wet.
Seriously how are people still trying to make the argument that lefties can’t be authoritarian? Did everyone just sleep through history class?
This begs the question: What is the left/right divide?
If anti-authoritarianism is a core component of leftism, then “authoritarian leftists” are not actually leftist.
Authoritarians leftists only use the “left” and “progressive” moniker to make themselves appealing, they’re the same kind of greedy and selfish people who’d kill you for their own group or goals.
Is there such a thing as left-wing authoritarianism
Yes, just go-to .ml or any of the other 2 in the Tankie Triad to see for yourself
And then realize that if the point of leftist views is to liberate us from right-wing subjugation, and what the authoritarian left wants to do is still subjugate most of us, then maybe they’re not our allies at all, actually. They’re just fascism wearing a different, more ridiculous, hat
Fascism is inherently right wing. There are no left versions of fascism.
exactly
What if I told you that Stalin actively pursued several fascist policies?
What if I told you those were authoritarian and not fascist inherently and youre simply too dense to understand the nuance here…
so what’s the nuance here? While striving for communistic utopia on paper, Stalin’s regime is quite fascistic from my perspective.
I don’t like to do that, but here’s quote from wikipedia:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Stalin’s regime does not correspond to the definition of fascism only in terms of how nationalistic it was, since the USSR was quite multinational, and had an objective to give prosperity to everyone regardless of one’s nation, although a number of actions were performed in order to preserve cultural and linguistic uniformity. Supression of Ukrainian poetry (see “Executed Renaissance”), linguistic bans, deportation of Crimean Tatars - those are the examples that i know of, but there were more in other regions.
Fascism is a broad term, and sometimes it’s used to refer to literally any authoritarian regime. While i don’t quite agree, and think that we should call it fascism only if it’s made in Emilia-Romagna region of Italy circa first half of XX century, otherwise it’s just a sparkling totalitarism, most people find the modern definition quite handy, and being that pedantic equals to being buzzkill anyways. In other words, i think it’s ok to call Stalin a fascist if you’re not a history geek (in the latter case i kinda feel your pain tho).
That would meanStalin pursued some right wing policies. Fascism is far right.
How is purging minorities and forcefully relocating them in order to kill some of them and assimilate the rest a far right policy and not a fascist policy?
Fascism is by definition a far right ideology.
So, Stalin was both far left and far right at the same time?
They’re just fascism wearing a different, more ridiculous, hat
Hey, c’mon now, say what you like about MLs, but Soviet hats are cool
Fascism already took a perfectly good mustache from us, don’t let it take the fuzzy hats, too!
At least Pringles Man did the heroic job of reclaiming the Stalin stache before it could be ruined forever o7
“Pringles Man” initially had no name, only referred to as “Mr. P”. Now, he is called Julius Pringles, after a 2006 Wikipedia hoax, eventually being “made canon” by Kellogg in 2013.
They (Tankie admins and mods of .ml) wants to be more like Hexbear, but are keeping it tamped down just enough to avoid what happened with Hexbear and grad where a lot of instances started defed’ing from them
!meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works See the pinned post regarding Nutomic, FYI Nutomic is the lead dev of Lemmy and the lead admin of .ml
Here’s a post I made the other day that one of their more prominent members made, though I realize now it’s in the context of making a mastodon instance, I think it still speaks to their desire to be closer to their “Hexbear comrades” https://lemmy.world/post/24842765
Tankie Triad? I can’t even imagine the brain rot you devour on a daily basis.
They are called such as that is where you will most likely run into the kind of fool who will claim Chinese people are freer than most nations on earth when that is a clownish claim IRL.
You have no idea what life in China is like. All of your information is strictly based on US propaganda
You have no idea what I do and do not know because you don’t know me. You are not psychic. You’re deluded if you think Chinese people are freer than most nations. In most nations I can propose changing governments without legal reprisal which is currently illegal in China.
Please explain how not having the ability to determine the political direction of your nation makes someone freer than anyone who can choose their government.
Could Jack Ma’s papers run an editorial demanding Xi step down?
No, because Jack Ma is a rich scumbag and shouldn’t have power over the government. The biggest difference between China and the US is that billionaire oligarchs don’t run their entire country. And I know you don’t know anything about how Chinese people live because you wouldn’t have the opinion you have if you did.
That’s not what I am asking you but it is interesting that you are incapable of answering these questions. Is that failure due to the fact that China isn’t free and any leftist supporting them is a class traitor? I think they are class traitors.
China’s oligarchs are selected by the party. It’s just as corrupt of a process overall.
Again you aren’t psychic. You have no idea what I know and the only thing I know about you is that you have difficulty understanding obvious facts such as the fact that you aren’t psychic.
I have something called deductive reasoning. I know it’s foreign to you because it’s a lot of big words and it sounds like telepathy, but I promise it’s a real thing.
China has plenty of freedoms, but what you’re advocating for is a lawless anarchist society which often devolves into rule by the capitalist class anyways. More importantly, I think it’s really stupid to completely ignore every leftist accomplishment that China has made and the fact that they’ve gotten closer than any country in history to becoming a real socialist society. But no, they’re class traitors for some reason because they arrest people that break laws. How evil it is to have law enforcement.
I know LGBT people are not allowed to speak up,
https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes
Meanwhile US has elected trans and gay people to congress. I sincerely hope the recent changes against LGBT folks are something the other party works to undo. All people deserve civil rights.
Like not licking the boot of any Authoritarian government? Hmm, yes brainrot lol classic tankie comeback
I just wish you weirdos would come up with something smarter than tankie. You right wingers are terrible at roasting leftists. Just be more creative. Tanks are awesome and tankie just sounds like someone that likes tanks. Tanks a lot.
Nah it’s someone who is a class traitor who believes authoritarians who murder in the name of leftism is doing good when IRL these nations aren’t leftist at all eg China which has stock markets.
One does not simply “do” communism. You have to transition into it. Also, I shouldn’t have to tell a leftist that capitalism isn’t “when you have markets.” Read a book. Specifically Capital.
Also, I shouldn’t have to tell a leftist that capitalism isn’t “when you have markets.”
A stock market is trade in the ownership of the means of production by private individuals, ffs
It is one of the innovations of capitalism. Jesus Christ.
Owning stock in a company does not give you control over the means of production. Sorry bud. Also, I don’t remember Marx ever claiming that every innovation of capitalism must be discarded to achieve socialism. Has no one actually read Capital?
I got banned from .bz for suggesting that DEI and CRT have links to Neo-Marxism, and got called a bigot for it.
If someone doesn’t want to read my posts, they don’t have to, it’s their right not to 🤷♀️
But it is unconscionable and egregious to call someone a bigot because they don’t fit your narrow and extreme ideology. I am literally the exact opposite of a bigot, lol
/rant
So what if DEI has links to Marxists? Marxist sociology isn’t inherently incorrect.
CRT is a law school technique for determining the impact of laws ok populations. Im not sure why that would be Marxist.
Well, Stalin for example very famously stole from the middle class, or kulaks, made their houses into hostels for the very poor, and then put the middle class people to death via gulags.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak
Any system which judges people as others to be exploited and killed isn’t any better than right-wing authoritarianism.
Authoritarianism is fucked up, doesn’t matter if it’s left or right.
Edit, even if you look at China and Vietnam as current examples, they are both hardly exemplary towards LGBT or minority rights. Hardliner Marxists would also say they’re too capitalist.
Edit some connections between CRT and Marxism, both are tools for Neo-Marxists
https://medium.com/@pluralus/is-crt-really-marxist-722c8cfa219
https://www.carolinajournal.com/opinion/a-closer-look-at-marxist-ideology-and-critical-race-theory/
Ok that doesn’t have anything to do with DEI though. DEI is the idea that hiring a more diverse group of executives and employees will yield more profits. The USSR wouldn’t institute DEI.
While I wholeheartedly agree with unbiased, fair and equal employment access and treatments, DEI has a more global agenda via Neo-Marxist ideology
https://medium.com/@iskandar.talaei/dei-explained-by-james-lindsay-53dd9cd510d2
https://lawliberty.org/the-philosophy-underlying-dei/
There’s nothing wrong with countries helping out other countries! I honestly want more of that. I just sincerely dislike the Neo-Marxist mindset that it’s okay to dismantle someone else’s home country to help out their own.
Edit also, if you consider the U.S. history with regional destabilization of LatAm countries, there are a lot of ghosts here which are coming back to haunt the US. No one has clean hands, historically.
Neither of those sources are good. James Lindsay is a propagandist and has no credibility in social sciences at all. He could not be a valid source much like my niece who is 3 cannot be a good source because neither has any education or experience that would suggest they know what they are talking about.
Your assertion that Marxism has anything to do with DEI seems to be unsupported.
I got banned from .bz for suggesting that DEI and CRT have links to Neo-Marxism, and got called a bigot for it.
… beg pardon
Tbh it doesn’t matter, at the end of the day I will do what I can for everyone’s civil rights the way any one person can, democratically.
But it is unconscionable and egregious to call someone a bigot
Lol literally all of .ml, “Something even slightly critical of China/Russia/NK” Banned for Rule 1: bigotry
“A new study”? Has everyone forgotten about Stalin?
So you consider Stalin to be “left”? How do you define left?
Tell us, with actual facts, how Stalin was left
His just in:
Fucking duh.
Removed by mod
veneration of hierarchy is an inherently right wing trait.
The Authoritarian left exists in the same was Anarcho Capitalism does.
It fucking doesn’t.
If one defines right-wing as pro-hierarchy, thus putting figures like Stalin as right-wing authoritarians, then you can still have left-wing authoritarianism by non-hierarchal enforcement of conformity and injustice. It’s a much harder thing to sustain on scale, though.
non-hierarchal enforcement of conformity and injustice
Yes, this sounds like a very real thing worth talking about. \s
Guess the USSR wasnt left then
Correct
I love how you idiots don’t even understand that the authority to libertarianism spectrum is the up down Axis and economic structure defines the left right axis.
we understand what the chart is trying to say. we just fundamentally disagree that you can map out an amassment of physical power and an amassment of economic power on two different axes when any coalescing of power, be that soft or hard, is still violence against us, the working class. just cause you give me some bread isn’t going to make me forget that you starved a country and shot my wife. and just because you hired mercanaries to beat me up for being on land you wanted doesn’t mean you didn’t abuse some form of power to do it. 3/4 quandrants of the chart are authoritarian in nature. they just wear different hats
