The shitshow in the Whitehouse yesterday really brought it to light - the U.S. can no longer be trusted with our secrets. Its time to leave 5 eyes. I would create a new intelligence sharing union with the other 3 members, on condition that they also leave. Inviting France and other EU states might also make sense.
Yeah but if you value the cultural diversity of Europe why would you want to see it homogenised under one corporatist banner? Why should diversity be reduced to the special designation of a few products such as stilton and champagne?
What is right for the UK might not be right for the Republic of Ireland, what is right for Greece might not be right for Germany, What is right for France might not be right for Italy. Why should laws be drafted by completely unknown people in Brussels and applied to everybody?
Ultimately, why shouldn’t people all across Europe have self-determination and autonomy? Don’t we need more devolution not less?
Could we achieve this, and have free movement of people? Yeah, but not under what the E became. It certainly requires that people from poorer countries aren’t used as basically scab/cheap labour to undermine pay and conditions of local workers of whatever origin.
Anyway, enough of that. What should best be considered a warning shot of future fascism was all sorted out about a decade ago. Hopefully UK society took note of the disaffection amongst the people that voted to leave the EU, looked at exactly what was bothering them, and, if they had good reason to be pissed off, addressed it!
What? They did fuck all but try and reverse the vote for years, terribly undermining the UK’s negotiating position, then ignored the issues voters had thus opening the door for the reform party?
Oh right.
Downvote away but you can’t downvote reality. We can still stop the fascists getting power in the UK, but not without addressing any legitimate issues reform voters have. Brexit should have been taken as a warning shot. It still isn’t.
Because we are much weaker as divided nations than we can be together. We collectively hold the weight to compete as a superpower, but individually, no European country does. We end up as vassals of more united regions capable of acting with a single voice.
We should be more involved in European politics, and make some of these decisions with other parts of the continent.
This is the default outcome of freedom of movement in a capitalist world. People in poorer places will always seek the opportunity of richer places. How do you think we can prevent it?
I’m not sure who exactly you’re talking about here, our society is divided. We are all “UK society”, including those who desired, voted for, and implemented Brexit. The people who said it was a bad idea continued to point out it was a bad idea. Lo and behold, the public now considers it to have been a mistake.
Reform voters are angry about immigration. There isn’t much we can do about immigration because our birth rates are too low. In 2042 we will have a third more retirees as a percentage of the population, that number still goes up if we raise the state pension age to 67 and accept 500k net migration long-term. We need workers to pay tax to fund the NHS and pensions, our biggest expenses. Unless they have a solution to this fundamental problem, mass migration is here to stay.
Pretty much all of your points are dubious or plain wrong, but the truth is I can’t be bothered wasting my energy on a reply. I say wasting my energy because the various attitudes you exhibited are very common, and will lead to the rise of Reform. And like most people, you are not able to change your mind in response to new information. I wish it wasn’t going to happen but it is.
Okay lmao. Why participate in a political forum if you don’t think there’s any point discussing politics with people?
None of what I have said is wrong. Here are some sources.
ONS: How would you support our ageing population?
YouGov: 55% of Britons now say it was wrong for the UK to leave the EU, with just 11% seeing Brexit as more of a success than a failure
The fascists were the ones wanting Brexit though because they knew they couldn’t make Britain the way they wanted it under the EU. And all of the bickering of trying to reverse that and undermine Brexit were just attempts to make sure we weren’t just falling down into fascism, but we’ve only just delayed it. Fight ain’t over yet.
You are completely missing the point. As long as you remain unable to deal with the actual issues facing people who will vote reform (never mind demonising them) you make reform’s rise inevitable.
I think you’re attacking me on a front I was not manning.
You are mistaken again.
Its frustrating to see people down vote this due to cooky cutter propaganda but as a socialist party member I agree the European unions was a bad idea and the uk government willfully join even against the wants of the British people. This a forgotten part of uk history.