- cross-posted to:
- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
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Whoever coined the phrase “it’s not my job to educate you” is top of my rogues gallery. If you want democracy to succeed, it is literally your job to educate everyone you can about the things you are passionate about and the changes you wish to see. I get where it came from, I understand the feeling, but it’s the worst possible phrase in the context of trying to make a political change.
“It’s not my job to educate you” led to Prager University
If you don’t, someone else will.
It really didn’t. Maybe 10 people said it because they were being harassed by concern trolls, while the rest of us continued to engage in conversation with people who seemed like they might genuinely be confused.
Like literally just do a web search for your question and you will be on better footing when you ask it.
Like I felt offended the first time I heard “my culture is not a costume” but I actually did some reading / thinking before I started bothering people with questions like what??? or even banditos?? or what about mummies?
I feel like a lot of progressive vocabulary words get used outside the contexts where they apply.
“It’s not my job to educate you” is a fair and valid thing to say when someone demands you defend the validity of your identity while you’re just trying to live your life. It’s unreasonable to expect every trans person to explain the history and complexity of gender to every chud who gives them shit.
It is, however, the opposite of activism and super unhelpful for an activist to say while ostensibly trying to build a movement.
Similarly, “mansplaining” is not a blanket term for any man explaining anything, listening to a friend vent is not “emotional labor”, and participating in cultures other than the one you grew up in is not “cultural appropriation”. All real terms that point at real problems, all sometimes used outside the contexts in which they are helpful.
Gaslighting is another often misused term. It’s not just a blanket term for lying, it is a specific type of lie.
And the thing to remember most is that the side we need to defeat doesn’t care about any of these terms.
If you instead choose to level these “academic” arguments at allies because they’re more likely to address your concerns and engage like a human being, you are making a mistake. A human mistake, but a huge mistake nonetheless.
It’s so easy when you’re charged up emotionally and scared and also prepared to exercise your knowledge and express your feelings, you might not know what to do with all that energy other than try to rip apart someone adjacent to you because it’s easier than feeling like you’re beating your head against a wall arguing with the actual mindless blocks of concrete who make up the conservative right.
Sure, I personally don’t use “academic” terms against other people. It does make the words lose meaning, which is why I use context and followup questions to really understand if the distinction is important.
I think it’s ok to bemoan the semantic drift of useful terms, away from the people trying to simply communicate with me. (No point in chastising.)
I’m not sure where you are getting where I am “ripping apart someone adjacent to me.”
In this instance, like most comments here, my comments are directed generally to readers, exactly like yours was. You’re obviously not attacking anyone and I didn’t suggest you were, which is why I started my comment with “and.”
Thanks for the clarification! Sorry, I misunderstood.
Yeah I mean I can understand not everyone wants to be an educator, especially of more ignorant people but when people say this I do wonder why they are even talking. I usually speak to people because I am interested in learning from them or because they’re interested in learning from me. This is the purpose of human communication. If you aren’t interested then the obvious solution is to stay silent.
I can understand not everyone wants to be an educator, especially of more ignorant people but when people say this I do wonder why they are even talking.
Exactly. If you’re not willing to try and educate someone you disagree with, insulting them is no substitute (in fact it’s pretty much the worst course of action re the presumed desired result), just keep quiet, or alternatively go talk to others who already agree with you so you can stroke each other’s egos, lol.
When out distributing political flyers people will often come up to me pretending to want a conversation and learn something about my/our points, but just talk over me all the time. Their purpose is not to listen, or to learn, or to question, but just to feel like they matter.
Had a guy recently tell me about how he is a mechanic and that he did his own study where he found out that combustion engines do not, in fact, let out any CO2. He started it all with “give me 3 reasons to vote for you” to put me on the spot, then immediately was like “ok, I have 3 not to do it.”
There is no conversation with people like that, I’ve tried it often. Now I just wish them a nice day and go away as it’s not my job to waste time trying go educate them talking against an idiot wall.
I first started seeing this on reddit (who knows where it actually came from though) which I believe schools its users to want to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention and engagement. I agreed with or rather understood its meaning at one point but this phrase along with has “let me Google that for you” has fostered an abysmal internet culture. I think a much more servicable and sympathetic version of what this phrase was once trying to say, when said in good faith, should be “its not my responsibility to engage with this post right now”, which isn’t spoken aloud but is applicable to everyone online, and which I find myself thinking more and more when a comment makes me groan. The problem is how driven we all are to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING for attention amd engagement. I think it was a valuable realization at the time that felt so good to fire off uncritically on Twitter that people really hurt themselves, others, and the internet’s culture when they did.
let me Google that for you
has a place. there are people out there making absolutely 0 effort & wasting everyone’s time. there are pointless posts of questions that literally could have been googled to get a quicker, comprehensive answer. enabling them to continue that way isn’t helping them or anyone.
people got to at least be willing to put in basic effort or it’s worthless.
You need to educate the right people at the right times, more than anything. I swear both this original message and most of the replies to it, like this one, speak of wild levels of inexperience in how to socialize and make people unite with you.
If you can choose between spending your energy addressing the stupid, ill-informed ideas posted by liberal Americans on Facebook or Reddit and withstanding a little public trolling, or spending your energy “educating” a vocal, prominent leftist who makes content about something they’re doing wrong or some word they’re misusing or some marginalized group they might be offending, can you guess what’s going to help the cause more?
(The really sad part here is that some people are reading this trying to weigh both options.)
It’s not exactly the sentiment I have a problem with. There are definitely people who aren’t worth engaging with and there’s a time to walk away, as someone else in this thread pointed out they do. Responding in a kind of snarky, condescending tone rather than just walking away does not help you.
Think about an online thread where this happens: Someone is making an argument, and a troll appears. They engage for a bit, but realize they aren’t going to make any progress. Walking away let’s the thread die, and people who stumble upon it in the future will likely recognize the troll for what they are and consider the argument. Responding with condescension instead makes the person appear to only be arguing for self-aggrandizement rather than to actually help or improve anything, and it can poison the argument they made before. It plays right into the troll’s hands.
Wish we wouldnt use AI
yeah the identical styles get old real fast
Its also the weapon of the enemy.
“Hey look, it’s Steve! …oh wait.”
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Way to derail <3
This is like talking about awareness and then driving away in a Tesla. The people who are feasting upon our institutions made AI. The same people we are protesting that infested this regime.
It was a critique, not a tear down.
Yeah, this is silly. They literally just expressed that they wished AI wasn’t used.
And look how much it has derailed the conversation.
Treating criticism like an attack is the enemy of progress, and ironically more perfectionist than being able to acknowledge flaws in your messaging too.
There are always the snobs that prefer nobody else be doing shit either so they can feel even more superior.
Where’s AI? Is the whole image AI or just the art?
The whole image.
You’ve improved my AI detection skills, thanks.
But you seem to be ignoring the message.
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Organize, don’t just argue
and
Imperfect allies are not enemies.
I’m not. The message is good. But its spouted from atop the corrupted bloom of our stolen labor.
If you know the post is AI and you don’t delete the post, that is tacit endorsement of using AI as a propaganda tool. You seem unbothered by that.
I do ignore the message if the medium is artificial. I won’t bother to read the image’s text or attempt to process the intent if I know the delivery is not genuine. I’m not going to waste my time or sully my brain by valuing and evaluating something posing as human expression.
You want me on your team? Don’t send a robo singing telegram as a recruiting tool. Convey your message like we’re humans instead of speaking through a fundamentally false impersonator. I don’t ask you to be a perfect human — I ask that you and your messages are genuine if you want me to listen. Trickery isn’t used to gain allies; it’s used to exploit the unwitting.
That good ol’ purity spiral.
A message isn’t a genuine message, because the choice of instrument to prepare it is disliked. Even if the text is the same, it’s the product of a “false impersonator” & “trickery”.
Genetic fallacy & non sequitur.
Edit: specifically, style over substance.
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False equivalency and fallacy fallacy.
The fallacy fallacy is thinking that just naming fallacies discredits an argument. Literally what you just did in your post.
False equivalency
Definition doesn’t fit.
fallacy fallacy.
Here neither: merely pointing out your argument is invalid (which it is), is not an argument that your conclusion is false, which I simply didn’t bother to claim.
Would bothering to claim & argue it’s false (reusing your words) “waste my time” & “sully” my attention with an invalid argument? Reusing your language even more
You know the comment is invalid and you don’t delete it, that is tacit endorsement of fallacies. You seem unbothered by that.
I do ignore the message if it is irrational. I won’t weigh your ideas further than necessary if I know the reasoning is poor. I’m not going to waste my time or sully my brain by valuing and evaluating something posing as good reasoning that isn’t.
You want me on your team? Don’t disrespect my attention with your poorly reasoned demands. Convey your message like we understand logic instead of abusing our attention with a pretense of a well-thought argument. I don’t ask you to be a perfect human — I ask that you and your messages respect logic if you want me to listen. Flawed reasoning isn’t used to gain allies; it’s used to mislead & exploit the unwitting.
While I don’t completely agree with that argument, either (especially the first paragraph), insisting on reasoning/substance seems way more compelling than that original argument (rejecting a message over superficial considerations). You absolutely can, but reasons that it’s right or logical are lacking or conflicted.
Rejecting a message is worthy of consideration over style is something an irrational person does. It’s a classic fallacy.
Noted
Alright now get back to the drawing board, and don’t come back until you have a meme you made in Krita
a meme you made in Krita
Nah, didn’t you read?
Some royal majesties
ignore the message if the medium is artificial
and will not have their attention sullied with
something posing as human expression
Anything digital, electronic, or mechanical is artificial. They want “genuine” human expression, and the printing press is impersonal, mass-produced schlock.
Gotta go full quill & parchment on this, hand delivered.
It’s distasteful, but a useful weapon. We need ways to create content that is good enough and really fast to make. A grassroots movement doesn’t have the funds to pay marketing teams to do our work for us.
What did people do before AI? It wasn’t that long ago.
AI is being used every social media site the world over to hamper discourse, embroil people, to enrage people…
I don’t know of another way to combat it except with more AI. Maybe at some point people will completely get off of the internet with the thought “There’s no real people on the internet any more”.
You poison it and you dont use it. That’d how you fight AI. With tarpits and poison. They’re like Mentats.
That doesn’t work, based on the results we’ve seen so far. All attempts to poison AI have quickly been bypassed.
Is there any source to this claim?
Sure, a quick google search turned up this, published just four days ago:
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10962550
Or here’s a discussion on r*ddit about how Glaze is totally ineffective against poisoning image generation AIs. (Same principles apply to others like Nightshade)
https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/12f9otc/so_the_whole_entire_glaze_ai_thing_does_it/
Basically every poisoning technique is by its very nature too specific to be useful for poisoning all the types of AI out there, or is too invasive and ruins the content for humans too, or is not strong enough and it gets lost in the cacaphony of data anyway.
Really it’s a clever idea in principle but in practice AI poisoning isn’t really a mathematically viable way to combat AI.
Ban AI where you can and talk about how bad it is when its relevant
They are never going to ban AI. It replaces too many workers. Hell, it’s smarter than half the people I know – even when it makes mistakes.
Who is “they”?
But i know AI wont be banned in most countries ever. The point is to try to make people avoid AI or avoid things that use AI
You can’t avoid AI or things that use AI. We’ve been using these statistical models WELL before they became mainstream. And they mimic human authors well enough that it’s impossible in many cases.
Its impossible in some cases, but possible in others
If people are openly using AI, others will be encouraged to do that to
Is this critiquing to build or tear down?
Critique. This wouldnt have been hard to make in a presentable way without AI. I get it, I’m just saying now is the time to burn all bridges. Change is coming either way.
Imperfect Allies Aren’t Enemies
- Critique to build, not tear down
- Organize, don’t just argue
- Movements win, not individuals
- Perfection is the enemy of progress
- Ego kills movements
- Plan for the long game
- Meet people where they are
- Power doesn’t care about feelings
- Division is a weapon used by elites, don’t play along
Thank you for annotating the post. Bumping engagement with my comment.
Thank you!
OP, accessibility is important. Don’t provide images of text when there’s real text. If you insist on the image, then provide alt text. You only limit reach with just an image & mark your message as exclusionary, contrary to your goals.
I’d be more likely to listen if this weren’t next to an AI Gen otter
Another sepia toned AI comic.
Yea I haven’t even read the message, the second I saw the text wobble I came to the comments to see who else has already called it out.
“Critique to build, not tear down”
Quoting the person who is being critiqued isn’t effective rhetoric… The whole point is that he isn’t convincing because he’s unable to not be a hypocrite for half a second. Pointing to his hypocrisy uncritically again doesn’t do anything to excuse the issue. If you actually want to convince anyone to follow the advice above, you need to do more than exist vaguely nearby. So do better, because this was a pathetic attempt and should never be repeated.
How’s that? Build you up enough?
The whole point is that he isn’t convincing because he’s unable to not be a hypocrite for half a second. Pointing to his hypocrisy uncritically again doesn’t do anything to excuse the issue.
Nothing you said is even vaguely related to what has been said in this thread. Where do you think you are right now?
I’m sorry you can’t read, but it definitely has been said to you, multiple times. I’m just not babying you about it.
Let me check the comment chain again:
-comment whining about AI
-comment whining about AI
-your deranged rant that is unrelated to anything that has been said before
Nope. Don’t know where you think you are or who you think you’re talking to but you seem to be lost.
Lol. Do you call everything you can’t read deranged? Because the hungry hungry caterpillar also makes sense to the literate among us.
I’m talking to cilethesane about how they’re uncritically quoting nonsense without adding anything to the discussion as though it furthers any point and I’m in this thread. You know where you are too, but you definitely are lost my dude
yeah, it just cheapens the message heavily
“Perfection is the enemy of progress”
“Division is a weapon used by elites”
uses currently divisive technology popularly known to be made by elites
I hope this unnecessary choice doesn’t cheapen my message or bother people I’m trying to meet where they are.
uses currently divisive technology
This is fucking “genocide Joe” all over again, just much more stupid because literally no one has been harmed by the creation and posting of this image.
Has OP stolen a job from some other artist by posting their meme? Maybe they should have commissioned it?
I get it, trying the force AI into everything as an excuse to not hire people is dumb as fuck, but this post is not doing that. People using it to make shit posts and memes is fine.
Why do you ignore the steps required to get here? The model doesn’t exist in a vacuum, nor did it automagically will itself into existence.
By the creation and posting, no one has been harmed, but the model’s development sits atop the stolen works of artists worldwide. Now these companies are trying to obviate artists. Harm was a prerequisite for this image’s creation.
You’re just ignoring the steps required to get to this “harmless” phase. It’s like saying “ffs, why do you want people to stop buying Nestlé where possible? Is wanting cookies evil now?”
Genuinely, why does none of this matter to you?
I’m not mad that AI exists, nor that people want to use it—so do I. But I can’t just ignore how they were made, or what the normalization of GenAI usage legitimizes.
Please don’t make comparisons to genocide joe. This isn’t the same (I can go into this if needed, but I hope you see why), and I’m not even from the US.
Why do you ignore the steps required to get here?
Did OP build and train the models? This makes as much sense as blaming OP for using the Internet to spread their message, because the “steps required” to get to the Internet include massive contributions to global warming, abusing and stealing the labour of the working class, and the genocide of indigenous populations. Why does none of this matter to you?
“ffs, why do you want people to stop buying Nestlé where possible?”
If OP is paying for access to the AI generation then they should not do that and provide them with profit. There are plenty of methods to get it for free so there is no reason to assume OP paid for it.
Please don’t make comparisons to genocide joe. This isn’t the same
Of course it isn’t. Israel’s genocide is a real issue that people actively made worse because having Palestinians die is easier than making the mental effort of thinking through the consequences of their actions (or inaction), and considering that sometimes all you can do is prevent something from getting worse.
This is just people refusing to engage with helpful messaging intended to help organize group solidarity because of a knee-jerk reaction, instead of considering if this image actually contributed to the harm AI causes in any way.
Both are people being intellectually lazy and pretending they are morally superior.
However, you have to be careful that your movement doesn’t get infiltrated, because that will hurt your movement. You have to be careful who you are walking with, and what their end goals are.
Don’t protest for a better health care system with people that are antiscientific. Don’t protest for a free Palestine together with antisemitic people. Do not let them blur your message.
One thing I’ve been grappling with is I would completely support a violent overthrow of the Trump admin, as I don’t consider him legitimate because of the insurrection clause, but I would never ever even discuss the subject with a bunch of tankies or anarchists because they’re just supporting destruction of our protected rights all the same as the enemy.
I really wish my fellow “progressives” would get it through their heads how deeply true it is that perfection is the enemy of progress. It’s supremely ironic that so many people who say they value freedom and individuality are so ABSOLUTELY intolerant of any slight deviations from what they see as moral perfection and adherence to doctrines. It’s like you’re either a hundred percent right or ten thousand percent wrong, and even suggesting there can be an in-between is being “complicit”. Lighten the fuck up or we’ll never get anywhere.
The incessant purity testing is completely exhausting and aggravatingly frustrating.
That sounds like something an enemy would say, right before they disagree with my objectively correct opinion about some minor thing and reveal their true nature.
I feel personally attacked by your vague statement and therefore see you as an enemy for life
the importance of that relatively minor thing also matters though, we can’t just purity test everybody for everything, even if it’s objectively correct, not all of it matters.
I would rather lose all my rights than stand beside ten thousand men who think neopronouns are cringe.
It would be impossible to achieve real change without your rigidity. Thank you.
Thank you more, for recognizing that sacrificing principles is bad and unnecessary, and victory is optional.
I hope we can also agree that anyone who unironically watches South Park are problematic and must be actively shunned if discovered.
And atheists who won’t suspend their theophobia for Islam are even worse.
I just felt like those groups needed to be mentioned for no particular reason.
true i hate winning, i hope we keep losing so we can keep up the facade of pretending to be good instead of actually doing something to solve the problem, because we would probably fuck up.
I personally deeply desire to be a noble loser and a perfect victim.
To die ethically unassailable, with no questionable acquaintances and no discord with progressive consensus, that is the goal we should all strive for.
Our flesh may be weak and vulnerable, but at least my spirit is secularily sainty, perfect, untarnished by compromise and realpolitik.
I. Am. Unproblematic.
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This is 100% something a few people here on Lemmy need to see.
You mean Lemmy, the website that has the broad and diverse userbase who primarily lean far-left to even-further-left? Everyone is here exactly so they can fight with people who aren’t on the right and can be debated with or attacked without a frustrating, pointless argument with someone who can’t even read.
Nobody here is going to read this as anything other than “You need to go after the REAL disguised nazis in your midst!” Everyone is here to escape having to fight orcs, so people here fight each other.
edit: keep downvoting… or if you rather spend your energy on something educational to yourself, challenge yourself to find a single contentious thread or post here that isn’t niche groups of leftists thought-clashing with each other about who’s a better leftist. I’m not saying you’re all bad, I’m saying you’re all making a lot of mistakes which is why we get trounced constantly and we now have a fucking dictator undoing democracy. We are not victims here, we are failures. Get better. I know it sucks to hear, but if you feel called out, you’re definitely the target and I hope you feel great levels of shame and accountability.
I have never been more disgusted with my own side as I have in the last few years, and you’re still the best bet in town, if you could just get your fucking emotions under control.
Its something people should have seen and accepted on or before November 5th.
Now I kind of just want to see the anti-electoralists suffer. Even if it means I suffer.
This for everytime some one suggests an idea. It’s not your job to snipe it because it’s too lofty an idea. If it’s a good idea, help hold it up.
And little victories. Healing by ten thousand stitches.
This!!
I see people shaming others for using Proton etc. It’s not perfect sure, but it’s a step in the right direction away from google.
Any step in the right direction should be praised.
Leftist broadly have gotten used to attacking their own side because they’re not the angry, mindless orcs that the right nurtures, and thus it’s simply easier to police your own side and win arguments against other people with minds than try to butt heads against orcs who don’t care and have no interest in thoughtful conversation.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
It feels like action, it feels like some kind of accomplishment that you got some progressive content creator railroaded off the internet because they had a dumb take on israel once or used the R slur at some point.
that’s great, but does it actually accomplish anything? That’s what really matters, it doesn’t matter if you run some weirdo out of town because he moderately disagrees with you, if he just goes to the next town over, where more people are waiting for him…
Well sure, but that does pretty much rehash the comment you responded to.
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Huh!? I dont pay attention to US news and i am already out of the loop!? Comon maaaan!
People on lemmy retort stuff like this with “If you talk to a nazi, you ARE a nazi”.
Meanwhile it’s just some dude who likes sourdough.
Honestly we have more in common than we think - on the left we just happen to “eat our own” so to speak.
Nah dude, if you tolerate fascists in any space, they use that space to recruit and try to transform the space for their needs. I’ve heard this from renfaire folks, who had to drive the fascists out of the space to keep it sane. I’ve heard about this happening in work places too. You gotta organize with non-fascists and drive the fascists out of the space by being vocally and actively supportive of groups they despise.
Want to know what the single biggest recruiting tool Nazis use, that nobody seems to ever talk about? Prison.
I’ve seen normal, non-bigoted people end up getting busted for a minor drug charge or something stupid, then they go to prison, get their heads filled with racist crap, and then come out sieg-heiling Nazis.
Prison is basically a Nazi-making factory at this point, so why does nobody ever talk about this?
I agree with this. If you’ve ever worked with someone that was awesome to work with and the whole space was left empty when they moved to another company, than you’ve experienced the opposite of a nazi. One toxic, shitty dude can make the whole place go down the toilet. It really only takes one to change a place.
No, it’s not about simply talking to a nazi. It’s about engaging withvthem as if they are an honest actor. IF they are a true nazi (BIG ‘if’ with how utterly ignorant Americans are), they will only use your honest engagement to at best waste your time, and at worst further spread their hateful propaganda.
If you’re engaging with an actual nazi/far right dingdong, this holds true. If you’re engaging with some idiot who has only up to now heard nazi talking points, it is not true. It is about providing a platform for nazis, not about talking to idiots.
And it gets complicated, because bad actors use this to make spaces for cult behaviour.
Not just nazi specifically, but if you have spammers/bots you can effectively destroy any moderately nuanced progressive space by adding intentional offensive voices in the group, and at reactive voices outside the group calling the original members x/y and pointing at the bots in the group as evidence. Progressive voices will leave to avoid the association, while actual bigots will hear that it is another space for them. By the end, it’s like it was always a bigot space, and the original points and nuance never existed.
Beware divisive propaganda, but also don’t accept actual intentional bigots to invade a space. If they proudly wear their bigotry, let them know it’s not socially tolerated. They are a cancer if enabled.
If someone says they interact with a space to try and stop it from turning into a bigot space, maybe that’s not actually your enemy.
Been fighting cult building propaganda for two decades and now I’m just yelling that the emperor has no clothes. It makes me happy to see people at least engaging with the topic, without calling me a nazi for trying to stop the spread of Nazis.
Also casual reminder that black Americans are Russia’s biggest target. Self segregation is what they want, don’t fall for divisive rhetoric. Be wary of real bigots, especially socially empowered ones. find people you can trust, and find solidarity. Don’t feed the division between those who want to cooperate. Education, exposure, and communication are paramount.
True. In addition to that it’s close to far-right rhetoric. I’m not saying whether it’s correct or wrong… But they sure like to play victim and say people will label them a nazi if they talk about subjects or to certain people. And they’re being wronged.
Did we already forget the almost overnight shift in what was seen as acceptable discourse once Trump won in 2016? All these intolerant and hateful assholes crawled out and felt emboldened to chirp christofascist/racist/delusional conspiracies in public and online spaces. And that zeitgeist shift pulled the Overton Window sharply to the right, paving the road for our current situation.
If someone’s basic political ideology is “government should industrialize state murder of X group/s” they are not someone I can make common cause or find sympathetic arguments with, or not without a lot of cult de-programming first.
Okay but if your options are more murder and less murder then you shouldn’t feel good about refusing to participate.
looks around the thread
I don’t know why you felt the need to make a message like this, OP. We’re all fully united and never quibble over inconsequential shit.
In this essay, I will outline how your post actually SUPPORTS the patriarchy…
FOUND THE NAZI
Like the Muslim voters in Michigan that voted for Trump because they didn’t like Harris’ support of Israel and then immediately had ICE breathing down their necks
This is true, but it’s a good reminder that most people don’t act like this meme. We should remember that minorities don’t owe us their vote, and we should stand up for them
As a transwoman I’m suddenly used to abuse from false allies who see me as an “Guaranteed Vote”
They’re not wrong, but only because it’s a two-party system and a true enemy is worse than a false friend.
Yes, this is the attitude they are referring to.
Right? Like, if someone’s promising Free Grog and Good Times, they’re probably LeChuck in disguise.
Yes, I made an Escape From Monkey Island reference.
First time I played that game, I felt stupid for not realizing the guy named “Charles L. Charles” with the same voice actor as LeChuck, was in fact, LeChuck.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but I’m glad that you are here and having a good time.
Maaaan now i got spoilered for a game that came out many many many years ago! Thaaanks!!! Angry emoji, angry emoji
Especially since the joke behind the Charles L Charles character is how easy it’s supposed to be to see the twist coming, and my autistic ass just took the character at face value.
Tbh i might have been the same, my fellow 'tism friend.
Wow! This is the second best Monkey Island reference I’ve ever seen!
Exactly. If you don’t want to be deported, you’re going to have to be okay with genociding some folks.
Or they could have voted for Harris and not had to deal with mass deportations and then tried to stop the genocidal acts. Instead they voted to continue the genocidal acts AND get deported. If the problem persists either way, why vote to fuck yourself twice?
LGBT folks got their ears on? Listening?
I’ve never felt friendlier, closer to a group of people and felt so much “fuck you die in a fire not enough!”
I will never stand against you, but it sure as fuck is hard being a friend.
(IRL, no problem. But online? Jesus fucking Christ what purity testing assholes.)
Left wing groups in general tend to do a lot of purity testing online , offline is a whole different story… as a queer person it buggs me tf out of my mind that people do that
I have no idea what this is targeting… I’ve never encountered anything like what you’re describing. What exactly are you conveying that is earning you criticism from the LGBTQ community?
I’m not shalafi but for example Blahaj and 196 is notoriously trigger happy with bans. I got permanently banned from like 5 communities all at once there for having one very tame civil discussion about where the overlap between gay and trans begins and ends. They’re also the most well known instance for defederations.
Oh I think I read something about
…without offering an opinion…
them creating a space for enthusiastic agreement only since they have plenty of enthusiastic disagreement elsewhere
Yeah that’s fine but as a result they’re self segregating and showing hostility to their allies. It’s a mixed bag, so to speak.
Perfect is a pretty evil enemy of good… and we think we’re doing the right thing by being sticklers
If I had a nickel for every time one person got mad at another for not being as far left as them by a difference of a single millimeter, I’m sure I’d have like a buck over the past couple years.
Everyone who is scared, angry and frustrated, but also too weak in their knowledge and debate skills, will instead choose to “manage” people on their own side so that they can feel like they’re accomplishing something other than what feels like pointlessly banging their heads against conservative orcs who have no interest in an actual debate.
At least libs and people on the left care about how they’re perceived so they will engage and debate with each other to try to fight for public validation, and these two things together make for our side being the most fractured, most corroded and most unrealistic political base.
The right doesn’t have kids who watch intellectual debates or read books about how to understand every side of every political spectrum or the details of literally any marginalized group, they don’t even give a shit about looking good for their own supporters because they are mindless, dumb and unified.
If you want to feel like you’ve outsmarted someone, debated their lies down and “TOTALLY DESTROYED” someone, you have to pick someone on the left because only then will you actually have a back-and-forth you can win.
Those are probably straight people trying to convince everyone else of how much they believe in the cause
sadly not. I know some people personally that are this way
Dear 50501 folks,
Every so often I check my messages at Facebook and noted there’s a big 50501 group there… any chance you could get that group to start educating their Facebook members that supporting Facebook means supporting the coup and fascism?
Just a thought, Wwe
I get what you’re saying, but if we sequester ourselves to niche spaces, how can we spread information? Isn’t it important to reach Facebook users?
What you do is underground railroad them out of Facebook.
Dear Captain My Captain,
Here is a link to a document I’m working on that hopes to do just that. Please let me know what you think:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
And it’s not just the Cap’n I hope to get comments from. Please dive in.
Using Facebook to attract disgruntled hostiles who are potentially ripe for recruitment, or those who are politically agnostic and getting angry at what is happening to them, and poisoning one of their primary propganda mouthpieces, are all important missions.
Breaking through to them is something I have tried to do for years. I’ve stumbled up on this:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10KqzL0M2QzUTCdTFzcA1sRkfbNdCoaL7Xn4n4ilpwi8/edit?usp=drivesdk
Comments if you have them.
How about don’t ask the opposition to host it and instantly doxx every person who touches that link? Just a thought. No fucking clue what is actually on the other side of that blue text and I’m not going to check
You’re literally just making a list for them
Seriously… link to FOSS app plz
Slow down. We are on the same side.
My thought here is that corporate owned social media needs to be destroyed and the best way to do that is to make it irrelevant — the way folks already in the Fediverse find it.
The way to make it irrelevant is to make it a ghost town.
Dreaming big, I wrote something for… Facebook idiots that might… just might… be persuaded to try something new. It’s just a doc. I can paste in the text? I guess I’m not tracking what you are concerned about?
I’m so new to the Fediverse myself, I don’t know about the closest thing there is to google docs? Educate me. I’ll pop the doc on that and then delete this link.
The coup? Who is overthrowing what exactly? I seriously just dont understand these things. I can’t imagine it’s very legit if there hasn’t been a call to arms. That’s why we bear arms, right? For perhaps an attempted coup.
Please read this:
