Due to the recent ban of a wolfballs.com-user for “Bigotry and racism on his main account on Wolfball.” it is requested that Lemmy.ml updates the Code of Conduct to reflect actual moderation. Please consider adding that Lemmy.ml will ban users for comments made with other accounts on other instances.

  • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
    243·
    2 years ago

    I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”

    And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

    Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”

    And i was like, ohok and he continues.

    "you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

    And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

    And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”

    And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.

    https://nitter.ca/IamRageSparkle/status/1280892535024619522#m

    • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
      1618·
      2 years ago

      If I understand your story right, we should proactively ban people because their friends might violate rules in the future? It sounds similar to the story of Minority Report, but that was supposed to be a dystopia, not an inspiration to implement irl.

          • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
            226·
            2 years ago

            I don’t need to argue anything. Fuck fascists. If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

            If you enable fascists to speak then what do you even stand for?

            To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.

            To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

            I don’t claim to be unbiased. I don’t claim to be fair. Because being unbiased and fair is for people who don’t have to worry about their own survival. LGBT people have already learned this lesson when we’ve been hunted down in the past. You gotta nip this shit in the bud before it takes root.

            If you make this place a safe haven for these people, then it’s not safe for me or people like me, and I will treat it like radioactive waste.

            • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
              1016·
              2 years ago

              You are proposing to change lemmy.ml rules so that users can be banned for activity on other sites. Your only argument for this rule change seems to be the claim that wolfballs.com is fascist. You havent shown any evidence to support this claim, and its far from obvious when browsing the site. So I dont see any justification for such a rule change.

              • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
                182·
                2 years ago

                You keep ignoring that he is on here every time someone is about to get banned for bigotry offering a safe space on wolfballs. You let the comment section of your Leftist website be a recruiting grounds for racists and homophobes. And you keep saying “can’t police his activity on another site,” but like…how is posting links and promoting a bigoted website not a violation of lemmy.ml’s rules?

                • nutomic@lemmy.mlM
                  919·
                  2 years ago

                  So now you say that Masterofballs should be banned because of things that other people say on his instance, and because of posting memes?

                  • Seanchaí (she/her)@lemmygrad.ml
                    172·
                    2 years ago

                    How can you possibly look at that site and argue that you don’t “see fascism.” And if you’d like, I can show you all the horrible shit masterofballs personally posts.

                    You don’t think wolfballs is fascist. You don’t just ban bigots outright, you in fact recommend to them a website where they can get their views affirmed and radicalize farther.

                    Earlier on you said “leftist” is too vague but you don’t know how else to describe lemmy, but this behaviour makes it abundantly clear that you should describe it as liberal.

            • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
              820·
              2 years ago

              If you’re an ML like you’ve stated in the past, you know why and don’t need me to explain to you why fascism is unacceptable and how they leverage liberal discourse to gain footing.

              This is exactly why non-MLs look at half the commies and shake their heads. If all you scream is “fascist” and literally refuse to explain, then all we gather is “They call people they don’t like fascists”. Then commies get mad the rest of us “can’t see” the proper way.

              To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

              How does this not counter your first point? If you don’t practice what you believe in when it actually matters, you don’t have beliefs, you have hobbies.

              Edit: This thread has gone on for many comments. Read them for a laugh. Basically they never proved the original guy is racist, only got increasingly frustrated. Which is honestly surprising, since I believe the guy is probably a racist PoS, but all I asked for was proof of it.

              • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
                193·
                2 years ago

                I have literally linked to where the guy is being racist and seanchai has quoted his homophobic and transphobic remarks. It’s plain as day. I’m calling this shit out because it makes me feel unsafe to be here as a queer person.

                Also, how do you not know what a dogwhistle is?

                • comfy@lemmy.ml
                  58·
                  2 years ago

                  It’s counterproductive to conflate racism, homophobia and transphobia with fascism.

                  They’re all disgusting behaviors. Make no mistake, they’re all mindless, anti-social, and dangerous. However lumping them into the term fascism trivializes what makes fascism in particular dangerous or appealing to its audience, it falsely suggests that fascism without those traits, a national fascism rather than a racial fascism (which is indeed what some fascists propose) isn’t reprehensible, and makes people who have seen a defintion of fascism think it’s just an ignorant slur just like calling any queer person a liberal, which will make people just not listen.

                  You don’t have to be one to be the other. They’re all horrible. Don’t pretend their problem is being a fascist; their problem is being a racist anti-queer idiot.

                  • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
                    121·
                    2 years ago

                    If it looks like a duck, eats like a duck, quacks like a duck, builds an ideological pipeline like a duck…

                • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
                  517·
                  2 years ago

                  Congrats on proving both my comments for the second post in a row. Also grats on being queer? Anyways, if you’re so confident you’re right, feel free to actually reply with links of the guy being racist (instead of just saying you did), because the only post I see you doing that has 3 links to… Content not posted by the guy and non-racist content.