- cross-posted to:
- earthscience
- hackernews@derp.foo
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- earthscience
- hackernews@derp.foo
- technews@radiation.party
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Just end me already, no more edging
They don’t know why the ozone hole is big this year but they suspect it may be related to a volcanic eruption. Article concludes that scientists expect the ozone layer to be back to normal by 2050.
The suggestion is that this is an unusual year for the ozone layer which sees the hole expand this time every year before retracting again by December. They never suggest human behavior is damaging it again.
To be fair, the commenter did not suggest that. But a bigger ozone hole contributes to global warming.
I don’t know what provoked the OP’s comment. I just wanted to add context because I personally made a lot of bad assumptions from it before reading the article.
Also I don’t know that your statement is accurate and global warming is never brought up in the article.
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as far as I understand, the presence of ozone causes a greenhouse effect. so an ozone hole should lessen the effects of global warming, if anything. Not to say we should be growing ozone holes of course
Where
Lots of doom and gloom in the comments here. As the article describes, the hole in the ozone layer varies in size over time. It is slowly recovering, but the annual variability means it sometimes is larger than before.
The variability of the size of the ozone hole is largely determined by the strength of a strong wind band that flows around the Antarctic area. This strong wind band is a direct consequence of Earth’s rotation and the strong temperature differences between polar and moderate latitudes.
If the band of wind is strong, it acts like a barrier: air masses between polar and temperate latitudes can no longer be exchanged. The air masses then remain isolated over the polar latitudes and cool down during the winter.
Although it may be too early to discuss the reasons behind the current ozone concentrations, some researchers speculate that this year’s unusual ozone patterns could be associated with the eruption of the Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha’apai in January 2022.
And
Claus concludes, “Based on the Montreal Protocol and the decrease of anthropogenic ozone-depleting substances, scientists currently predict that the global ozone layer will reach its normal state again by around 2050.”
If only all the other ways we’re trashing this planet were as easy to solve as it was to simply ban CFCs
They aren’t that difficult either, it just will have a bigger impact because we have been relying on them for longer.
Banning oil and single-use plastics would go a long way.
Yeah, but I’m wondering what can replace rubber tires. I was just reading about how they’re a massive source of microplastics and other pollutants in the environment
I’d Imagine that some type of aerofoam type thing could work for smaller vehicles like bikes n all
This strong wind band is a direct consequence of Earth’s rotation and the strong temperature differences between polar and moderate latitudes.
Sounds like something global warming can make worse.
Isn’t the northern hemisphere jet stream struggling due to decreasing temperature differences, since the poles are warming faster? Which then causes weather to change less, making things more extreme?
Gulf Stream, not jet stream. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66289494
so you don’t think the increase in methane is gonna effect this?
I dunno about you, but ‘lots of doom and gloom’ sells short of utterly fucking shocking temp rises in the ocean, the slowing of the gulf stream and the heat-stroke of a winter the southern hemisphere just endured.
meteorologist Brian McNoldy of the University of Miami called global air and ocean temperature trends “bonkers,” stating: “People who look at this stuff routinely can’t believe their eyes. Something very weird is happening.” https://www.axios.com/2023/06/13/climate-extremes-warming-charts-concerns
I’m not trying to fear-monger but I think we’d all be better off frankly recognizing the shit isn’t going to hit the fan, it’s hitting it rapidly and the backblast is beginning to impact. It’s not doom-and-gloom if it’s actual reality people are trying to live through.
The hole was set to be normal by now.
Where did you hear that? CFCs can linger in the atmosphere for 50-100 years, so recovery is a slow process. It took more than a decade after the Montreal Protocol went into effect before the hole in the ozone layer stopped growing. Additionally, different parts of the ozone layer will recover at different rates:
I haven’t checked the article linked. I could swear about a month ago I saw a headline saying the ozone hole was slowly recovering?? No?? NASA backed research or something? Did I imagine it all?
Yeah you aren’t imagining it. I recall reading one a while back saying the hole in the ozone layer over Antartica was healed. I cannot find the article in particle but a quick google search turned up this one that said it closed in 2021
Edit: Antartica
Yeah I thought I saw one around here recently that said it had recovered since the 80s or 90s since we stopped using certain aerosols and refrigerants.
Best guess is the ozone is super sensitive to pollution and covid restrictions stopped.
Your best guess is wrong :)
If everyone who could WFH did, I’m sure the lower carbon emissions from so many fewer cars on the road would have been a large help. Buuut noooo gotta be in the office so you can see me type a little.
Carbon emissions don’t contribute to the ozone hole, only certain pollutants
You gotta be in the office so you stay in your district. If you could live anywhere and work the same job it would fuck up the gerrymandering
I’m surprised I haven’t heard that as an explanation for the anti-wfh people yet. That’s a good one.
deleted by creator
So we’re back to the 70s?
Do not get me wrong. I am in favor of going green but all I see is small car engines that designed to fail and less effective cooling.
almost all modern cars cannot provide cooling while idling at 50c. It got so bad to the point where we have businesses that solely exist to modify brand new cars to fit pre 2017 air compressors.
Home ACs are victims too.
On the other hand, airplanes kept flying empty for 3 months during COVID 19 to keep their slots reserved.
What is your point?
That we should go back to knowingly destroying the ozone layer because the lingering effects of our previous attempts at destroying it haven’t gotten completely better yet and that has had bad effects on air conditioning. Won’t anyone think of the poor deprived people forced to sit in their cars that are a sweltering 70 degrees Fahrenheit?
My point is consumers are squeezed to hell while the industrial sector is happily polluting the planet.
My car headlights are no less than $1k and not serviceable. Meaning if a bulb is out then I need to pay $1k and throw away a perfectly functioning plastic.
I did my homework before buying a car and almost all reliable manufacturers, including Toyota, is doing the same thing.
Climate activists should focus on these corps first.
You realize that banning CFC’s did have massive implications on industry right? Most CFC use was industrial. This comment really just shows that you’re clueless on the history of this issue. Consumer air conditioning was far from the only casualty. If we had not banned CFC’s then the ozone layer would be in an absolutely dire state today.
The Montreal Protocol is literally proof that if international governments wanted to they could come together and stop industry from destroying the planet, and you think we should roll that back for air conditioning? Give me a fucking break dude.
To clarify, I am not talking about r12 refrigerant vs r134.
When I say older cooling system / model i mean pre 2017 air compressor.
The new ones, 2017 and onwards, are designed for mileage per gallon.
I see. That is an entirely separate discussion. Whenever you bring up air conditioning on a thread about the ozone layer everyone is going to assume you’re talking about the refrigerants.
You’re right.
I edited my comment.
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Clickbait title aside, the article is about normal variations of the ozone layer caused by nature. There’s nothing that suggests humans are causing the increase, and the overall trend is still that the hole will close fully in a couple decades.
