Mainly because a lot of the problems these guys are talking about just not materilaizing within the franchise have existed since like 2012.

Too many quips? Avengers 1, Dark World and Age of Ultron were infamous for this.

Every new movie is a sequel hook? Iron Man 2 was a 3 hour trailer for the Avengers, and this series popularized post credits scenes

Bad Special Effects? Phase 1 films looked like they were cooked up in about a week because their sets were so cheap.

Bad writing/Too much bait and switch? Remember how mad fans got over Iron Man 3 with the Mandarin twist?

I think all this discourse is less about Marvel “not being good anymore” and more about people starting to unconsciously realize that mindless corporate shlock isn’t actually that gripping once you start holding it under the microscope. Like this series has been going for 16 years and hasn’t actually changed, of course you’re sick of it.

  • Giyuu@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    Phase one seems like it had the most effort put into it. The movies had to stand on their own because it was a new project that couldve failed, and the music was also fairly memorable. It was neat how each movie only had small hints about other movies/heroes, so you got the point they were part of the same universe but it never distracted from the movies themselves. The characters also complete their own character arcs in their phase 1 movies, too.

    Everything else was just crap. Once youve seen phase 1 you’ve seen everything.

  • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    I try my hardest not to be a snobby kinobro, and I like my fair bit of schlock (Psycho Goreman, Dead Snow) alongside my A24s, but every time I see Marvel or DC my brain enters a thoughtloop where it keeps saying “capeshit capeshit capeshit”. It’s a cultural poison, ingrained with Great Manism and state department propaganda. Hot garbage with flashy lights.

    I’d like to see something like Immortal Hulk realized on the big screen. Something that actually makes you fucking think rather than shoving the motif of status quo preservation being holy in our faces.

    • SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      I just watched Dead Snow 2: Red vs. Dead and I recommend it for some goofy nonsense fun. Nazi zombies have risen and it’s up to our protags to raise a Red Army general who was executed by the Nazis for revenge. Like I said, schlocky, but I appreciated that it pointed out Nazi atrocities against Soviets and didn’t paint the Soviets as the bad guys.

    • Mzuark@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      2 years ago

      The state department propaganda part definetly shines in any movie or show that comes just a bit too close to being profound. Like in Black Panther where Killmonger and N’jobu did nothing but bring up good points but the friendly CIA agent is brought in to remind us that he’s baaaad.

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        2 years ago

        Probably the most egregious example. I think as well of Civil War, where the conflict that arises is literally over whether superhumans with the ability to kill billions of people should maybe perhaps have a teeny bit of government oversight. All after the Avengers have been found guilty of being responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands! IIIRC; maybe even more. People like to pretend sides were presented (and thusly make it their entire fuckin personality, a la Edward vs Jacob for Twilight), but the whole damn movie wants us to understand that Tony is a little beta cuck willing to bow down to Big Government, whereas Captain Amerikkka is our based big boy PatrioticTM libertarian. Throw Captain Marvel basically being an extended U.S. Air Force advertisement on toppa that shit pile, too.

        People like to say Thanos did nothing wrong, and some of us rightfully say that Thanos should have just doubled the resources or installed multiverse-wide communism. I’m starting to wonder if Thanos isn’t literally what the writers of this garbage think of actual communists. Killing people, but for equality, and that’s bad and just like Stalin! Blegh.

        • Navaryn@lemmygrad.ml
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          2 years ago

          tbf Thanos’s objective and the means with which he planned to achieve it never made sense regardless of the angle you look at it from

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        2 years ago

        or in falcon and the winter soldier.

        the “bad guys” want refugees to have rights, and the only way to convince the audience of them being evil is having them kill an american soldier on screen while the leader says “it had to be done”

        and when the show comes to term with the fact that they were objectively not evil and their requeste made sense, they have falcon write a strongly worded letter to mr. local politician. you know, the REAL way to protest and achieve change.

        a loooooooooooot of marvel productions follow this blueprint of “hi, i am the bad guy, i want free lunches in schools, abortion rights, and an end to racism. Oh, i also kill baby seals as a hobby”

    • Navaryn@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      yeah ok “Dead snow” is a fucking masterpiece, thank you very much. You want me to believe a movie about zombie red army soldiers fighting zombie nazis is “schlock?”

  • loathsome dongeater@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    I would have liked if they chose to tell a well rounded story and be done with it. Problem is they are incentivised to milk every franchise to the last drop because it makes them easy money. I was generically interested in Marvel movies when I was a little bit younger but you go through the whole ordeal of the snap bullshit which was set up and expounded on in multiple movies only to learn that they will carry on with this bullshit for god knows how many “phases” and it becomes extremely exhausting. They even released a digital card game which is called Marvel Snap. Jesus Christ just let it go already.

    The only good thing to have come out of all this is the Guardians of the Galaxy video game from a few years ago. Everything else has been overhyped or just plain shit.

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      2 years ago

      To be fair to MCU, this is exactly how USA comic market works. They keep their characters forever - the oldest Marvel ones like the Human Torch are in action since 1939, just year after Superman debuted as the first classic superhero. It’s part of the deal.

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    2 years ago

    Honestly, I cut off Marvel as soon as the Avengers replaced the X-Men, and Avenger stans always wanted to make it my problem that I wasn’t with their State Dept mouthjobbing. I find it funny to see how long it took them to finally start even realizing basic problems with the format.

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    2 years ago

    They do this with every movie. Most of them have terrible opinions similar to how the predictions for the next movie are so obviously not going to happen. If you ask me the movies are better now that Iron Man is dead. Don’t forget these tubers make bank just by complaining about pop culture and pretending to be movie critics. They realized it was a cash cow to trash movies after people had a stroke that star wars had an Asian woman in a major role. There is always some hyper cringe title like “an unmitigated disaster” as if they didn’t graduate high school two years ago.

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    2 years ago

    it all started because the latest quantumania movie, had its script changed, resulting in an unfulfilling story, so they start to notice the other stuff

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      2 years ago

      But almost all the other stories were unfulfilling, too…

      There’s one film where a man is saved by a cape. A magic piece of cloth.

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    2 years ago

    I liked cpt. america (WW2 and nazis getting f*d), Dr. Strange (visual effects and kinda new feeling), Guardians of the Galaxy (flashy space thing) and Infinity war (thanos wins, marveloids cope, thanos did nothing wrong except being a Terracentric who should have instaurated communism).

    All other films of “omg, infighting among my heroes to create drama, and stereotypical hero film for my white heroes”… Yeah, couldnt care less.

    Give me communist superman, or captain USSR, father of Black Widow.

    • QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      I haven’t seen the earlier ones, but I liked Thor ragnarok and guardians of the galaxy mostly for the soundtrack, and I don’t think they’ve aged too poorly (besides Chris Pratt sucking). I also liked Black Panther when I was like 10, and it’s kinda cringe now, haven’t seen the sequel yet tho (i don’t plan to).

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    2 years ago

    when they started to push movies everywhere, i knew that hollywood was getting out of ideas, now they just want to sell as much marvel plastic crap as much as they can (avengers OST was cool, tho)

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      2 years ago

      yeah, the real turning point was when they moved away from the main characters (captain, thor, ironman, hulk to a lesser extent) and tried to replicate the same success with characters nobody had ever heard of and that pretty much only exist on paper as a footnote in a comic from 40 years ago.

      yeah, maybe Robert Downey Junior as Iron Man could convince me to pirate your movie - but i ain’t gonna be as excited for generic buff actor #8274 playing in a movie about the origins of the feared vigilante “the brown meerkat”

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    2 years ago

    Every movie is literally the same at this point, the ‘‘bad guy beats good guy, then good guys gets power up and in the end beats bad guy shit’’. Besides new Spider Man being good, honestly, they should have just stopped at Endgame. It was fun for some time, but after Endgame, they don’t even have more ideas.

    Everyone is complaining about special effects and trash scripts because they can’t come up with anything else. I won’t even comment on DC. I just don’t know why it can’t be in levels of Tobey Maguire Spider Man and The Dark Knight trilogy?

    • Navaryn@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 years ago

      i’d say DC has some pretty big misses but can also churn out decent movies every once in a while. The new batman movie is very good imo, far better than anything marvel has produced in the last 15 years - just on the account of it having SOME creativity compared to marvel’s lack thereof