“Skip a bit, brother.” ( . . . ahead to the epistles and Revelation)
Jude is a great example and quite short, I’ll just quote it here.
The Book of Jude (NIV)
1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James,
To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance.
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.
11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
20 But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
24 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
And there’s PLENTY more where that came from, lol.
EDITED TO ADD: I can only assume that downvotes are from butthurt Christians, because I didn’t write the fucking rag, I just quoted it. I like people to see for themselves exactly what is behind the Christian “God is love and He loves YOU!” horseshit, as well as the constant iteration of Good People vs Bad People, Holy People vs Evil People, Cis/Het People vs Non-Cis/Non-Het People that flows through the entire screed like a filthy river of hatred. And now you have. As I said above, there’s PLENTY more where that came from. I haven’t even started on Revelation, the whore of Babylon and the four bloody horsemen, lol.
I don’t consider myself a Christian anymore, but based on what I was taught as a kid, I’d personally take anything that wasn’t explicitly stated to be spoken by God or Jesus with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to books that weren’t written by Jesus’ disciples (excluding Saul/Paul, who never actually met Jesus).
As a kid, I was taught to read the Bible and use my brain (god gave you one, use it) to figure out what it was trying to say, not blindly follow it without question. The reason for that is because I was taught that the Bible is inspired by God, not written by him (unless explicitly stated that the passage came directly from God or Jesus’ mouth). As such, you have humans attempting to understand God’s (and later Jesus’) commands, which means they aren’t always going to be 100% correct and/or there may be historical context that is missing when you take it literally and at face value.
You’re supposed to not just read, but also think about the Bible and decide what parts make sense when taken in context with what is said to be explicitly said by God (it’s part of the reason why some Bibles mark anything said by God/Jesus in red).
For an example, the passage you’ve quoted could be interpreted as a warning about pagans larping as Christians to take advantage of christian kindness and distort the word of God into something else (similar to the merchants in the temple, or like what is happening in Christianity now). You could also read it as an almost complete reversal to what Jesus taught in the early NT.
Which one of these makes more sense?
A) Jesus comes to earth, teaches people about kindness and goodness, hang out with prostitutes and untouchables, dies on the cross for everyone’s sins, becomes a zombie, and declares that the laws of the Old testament had been fulfilled through him so all could be saved. Then a few years later, he changes his mind and inspires Jude to write a letter about how the gays should be cast out and are going to hell.
B) Jude was writing the letter as a warning to keep your guard up around non-christians in case they might persuade you to distort the teachings of Jesus and/or hijack Christianity to turn it into a money-making scheme. It wouldn’t be the first time it happened (the merchants in the temple immediately springs to mind again).
Or C) Jude didn’t really know what he was talking about and the book/letter is included because it’s referenced in other places of the Bible and theologians would rather err on the side of caution and allow a non-canon book to be included in the Bible than delete something that might be important (iirc the Bible states that you’re not supposed to remove, change or add to anything said in scripture, so from a Christian perspective, I’d imagine if you’re not sure about something then it’s probably better to include something than exclude it).
Imo, B) seems the most likely. If you believe the Christian God is real, then A) is absurd, and C) seems unlikely due to Jude’s proximity to James. It seems like if C) were true, then there would be records of Jude being refuted or rebuked.
I’m not a Christian anymore myself. So I no longer care. It’s ALL a fairy tale.
I only posted because some folks like to sugar coat it in absentia, trusting that no one will have actually read it.
Books like Jude, above, and vast swathes of both the Old and the New Testaments are absolutely full of the deserved damnation of “icky people” and folks should see it for themselves, which is to say that no one who took the time to read the above will ever fall for that Christian “God loves everyone” shit again.
…right, I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by, “gross, icky people”. I usually see the phrase used to mock “”“Christians”“” who yell and scream about people who are LGBT; effectively saying the “”“Christians”“” are just upset because they view the LGBT community as being gross and icky and use the Bible to justify their bigotry.
You’re correct that there’s a lot in the Bible about hellfire and damnation, but I think God doesn’t really care if you’re straight or gay (I know there’s a passage in the old testament that people, especially evangelicals, like to use as a smoking gun, but afaik the English translation is controversial among theologians and it may have intended to refer to pederasty, since that was common at the time), I think he’s more concerned with pedophilia, bestiality, greed, manipulation, etc.
To put it another way, I kinda doubt he gives a fuck about Freddy Mercury being bi or Elton John being gay, and more about how people like Joel Osteen use the Bible to enrich themselves or how people like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk use their wealth and power to strip people’s rights and encourage bigotry. You know, truly evil people.
If (a big “if”) the Bible is true, I think there are a lot of gay, trans, bi and enby people who’ll be pleasantly surprised to find themselves at the pearly gates, while a lot of supposed “”“Christians”“” will get a rude awakening in hell.
My apologies then, because I did misunderstand you and I could not agree more. Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position; it is well taken.
“Skip a bit, brother.” ( . . . ahead to the epistles and Revelation)
Jude is a great example and quite short, I’ll just quote it here.
And there’s PLENTY more where that came from, lol.
EDITED TO ADD: I can only assume that downvotes are from butthurt Christians, because I didn’t write the fucking rag, I just quoted it. I like people to see for themselves exactly what is behind the Christian “God is love and He loves YOU!” horseshit, as well as the constant iteration of Good People vs Bad People, Holy People vs Evil People, Cis/Het People vs Non-Cis/Non-Het People that flows through the entire screed like a filthy river of hatred. And now you have. As I said above, there’s PLENTY more where that came from. I haven’t even started on Revelation, the whore of Babylon and the four bloody horsemen, lol.
I don’t consider myself a Christian anymore, but based on what I was taught as a kid, I’d personally take anything that wasn’t explicitly stated to be spoken by God or Jesus with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to books that weren’t written by Jesus’ disciples (excluding Saul/Paul, who never actually met Jesus).
As a kid, I was taught to read the Bible and use my brain (god gave you one, use it) to figure out what it was trying to say, not blindly follow it without question. The reason for that is because I was taught that the Bible is inspired by God, not written by him (unless explicitly stated that the passage came directly from God or Jesus’ mouth). As such, you have humans attempting to understand God’s (and later Jesus’) commands, which means they aren’t always going to be 100% correct and/or there may be historical context that is missing when you take it literally and at face value.
You’re supposed to not just read, but also think about the Bible and decide what parts make sense when taken in context with what is said to be explicitly said by God (it’s part of the reason why some Bibles mark anything said by God/Jesus in red).
For an example, the passage you’ve quoted could be interpreted as a warning about pagans larping as Christians to take advantage of christian kindness and distort the word of God into something else (similar to the merchants in the temple, or like what is happening in Christianity now). You could also read it as an almost complete reversal to what Jesus taught in the early NT.
Which one of these makes more sense?
A) Jesus comes to earth, teaches people about kindness and goodness, hang out with prostitutes and untouchables, dies on the cross for everyone’s sins, becomes a zombie, and declares that the laws of the Old testament had been fulfilled through him so all could be saved. Then a few years later, he changes his mind and inspires Jude to write a letter about how the gays should be cast out and are going to hell.
B) Jude was writing the letter as a warning to keep your guard up around non-christians in case they might persuade you to distort the teachings of Jesus and/or hijack Christianity to turn it into a money-making scheme. It wouldn’t be the first time it happened (the merchants in the temple immediately springs to mind again).
Or C) Jude didn’t really know what he was talking about and the book/letter is included because it’s referenced in other places of the Bible and theologians would rather err on the side of caution and allow a non-canon book to be included in the Bible than delete something that might be important (iirc the Bible states that you’re not supposed to remove, change or add to anything said in scripture, so from a Christian perspective, I’d imagine if you’re not sure about something then it’s probably better to include something than exclude it).
Imo, B) seems the most likely. If you believe the Christian God is real, then A) is absurd, and C) seems unlikely due to Jude’s proximity to James. It seems like if C) were true, then there would be records of Jude being refuted or rebuked.
I’m not a Christian anymore myself. So I no longer care. It’s ALL a fairy tale.
I only posted because some folks like to sugar coat it in absentia, trusting that no one will have actually read it.
Books like Jude, above, and vast swathes of both the Old and the New Testaments are absolutely full of the deserved damnation of “icky people” and folks should see it for themselves, which is to say that no one who took the time to read the above will ever fall for that Christian “God loves everyone” shit again.
…right, I think you might have misunderstood what I meant by, “gross, icky people”. I usually see the phrase used to mock “”“Christians”“” who yell and scream about people who are LGBT; effectively saying the “”“Christians”“” are just upset because they view the LGBT community as being gross and icky and use the Bible to justify their bigotry.
You’re correct that there’s a lot in the Bible about hellfire and damnation, but I think God doesn’t really care if you’re straight or gay (I know there’s a passage in the old testament that people, especially evangelicals, like to use as a smoking gun, but afaik the English translation is controversial among theologians and it may have intended to refer to pederasty, since that was common at the time), I think he’s more concerned with pedophilia, bestiality, greed, manipulation, etc.
To put it another way, I kinda doubt he gives a fuck about Freddy Mercury being bi or Elton John being gay, and more about how people like Joel Osteen use the Bible to enrich themselves or how people like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk use their wealth and power to strip people’s rights and encourage bigotry. You know, truly evil people.
If (a big “if”) the Bible is true, I think there are a lot of gay, trans, bi and enby people who’ll be pleasantly surprised to find themselves at the pearly gates, while a lot of supposed “”“Christians”“” will get a rude awakening in hell.
That was the point I was trying to make.
My apologies then, because I did misunderstand you and I could not agree more. Thank you for taking the time to clarify your position; it is well taken.