Palestinian officials said two newborns died and dozens were at risk after fuel ran out. Hamas said it destroyed some Israeli military targets while an Israeli military spokesperson said Hamas had lost control of northern Gaza.
Hamas doesn’t care… They are terrorists. It is incumbent upon the “good guys” to be better than the terrorists. We really don’t want to go back to the time when war was a race to the bottom of the atrocity ladder.
Yup. Hamas is a shit organization who only the Palestinian people to further their wealth and trash ideology. Gaza hasnt had an election since Hamas barely came to power. Their leaders live a life of luxury while their people suffer. That said, netanyahu has been a fucking asshole himself – he caused this attack as much as Hamas.
However, this is an ongoing war that was started by two assholes where the only suffering happens to innocent people. Civilians die in war, while they are not primary targets (except by terrorists), they will be caught in the crossfire. If a major leadership cell is at a hospital – the hospital is a target and the leadership will be taken out, even in the laws of war – you CAN target hospitals. If a hospital is “untouchable” then the enemy will use it. War is horrible, but when you are in it – you fight.
Its best to focus on the failed policies of the USA, Isreal and the authoritarian, terrorist Hamas government that led to this mess in the first place and find some path for peace to ultimately stop all this bloodshed.
How this can be done? No idea, but whatever has been done isnt working.
I’ve been in a few war zones… I know the rules. The point isn’t whether it’s legal… Israel has the resources to clear these places on foot. Yes, it sucks and yes, it will result in higher IDF casualties. Just like clearing Falluja building by building led to higher coalition losses there. Soldiers dying is better than civilians dying…especially when you’re fighting terrorists. Every dead civilian has family, friends, lovers, etc, that will become more sympathetic to the terrorists and make killing the ideology that much harder.
“Its best to focus on the failed policies of the USA, Isreal and the authoritarian, terrorist Hamas government that led to this mess in the first place and find some path for peace to ultimately stop all this bloodshed.”
The policy that led to Hamas was the apartheid system imposed on Palestinians by Israelis, not to mention the continued theft of land over the last 70 years. Nothing changes without that system being dismantled.
You dumb. Correct, they haven’t had an election within the lifetime of over half the population of Gaza so they aren’t duly elected and there’s little evidence to support Palestinian support of Hamas specifically. Netanyahu had been caught paying hamas cash on multiple occasions, didn’t must cause it he paid for it.
You cannot disproportionately attack a hospital, there are 5000 people known to be in that hospital and a claimed sub 500 Garrison below that they refuse to get into his or why they know about. You can’t kill 5000 to kill 500 you don’t actually even have proof exist.
You seem to gloss over the literal terrorist roots of the IDF, lehi, irgun, haganah age others were all terrorist organizations involved in self claimed acts of assassination, civilian bombing and religious purge of secular leadership.
No shit? Bombing civilian industry and controlling the population of an open air concentration camp isn’t popular? Whoever would have guessed that?
somehow I’m not surprised that you can’t even think about science and how it contributes to civilization.
you are being intellectually dishonest by claiming that we are all equal and then you pick the worst possible example from the group instead of picking the best representatives of nobel prize winners before comparing them with terrorists.
but sure I’ll take anyone from the list of nobel prize winners (which in my opinion are usually political) over someone that puts babies in ovens and burns them alive. it’s not really that complicated as you are trying to make it seem, even when you pick a strawman interpretation of my comment.
EDIT: In a way I’m not surprised that the very people who defend hamas think that rapists and terrorists have the same worth as a nobel prize winner.
All things being equal, the IDF are bigger and more successful terrorists than Hamas and their response to the October 7 attack was a disproportionate response, despite the IDF also conducting operations in the west bank at the same exact time.
Comparing actions being taken in a war being fought over an area larger than that of Delaware to that of a bank robbery is too reductionist to give any sort of meaningful response to.
War fucking sucks, and sometimes the only way to save 10,000 lives is to end 100. Every country has limited resources to deal with hostage situations in active warzones.
The thing though is, that this is not the case with IDF. They have plenty resources, enough to be selling to the rest of the world actually, and they are not preventing an impending attack. It seems like their motives are somewhere else
Imagine for a moment, if you will, the United States in the present day. Imagine a bill reaches the US House of Representatives called “America the nation state of white people”. In its basic principles it states “the right to exercise National self-determination in the United States is unique to white people”. Further down a clause for White Settlement “the state views the development of White Settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation”.
Outraged a coalition led by the Congressional Black Caucus initiates a challenge to the bill and proposes a bill of their own where it calls the United States “a country for all its citizens” but the speaker of the house unilaterally disqualifies the bill before it’s allowed to even be debated.
The house General counsel explains in a statement the bill includes several articles that are meant to “alter the character of the United States from the nation state of white people to a state in which there is equal status from the point of view of nationality for whites and people of color” the bill is dead.
“America the nation state of white people” passes through both chambers of Congress unchallenged it’s then signed into law.
US President Joe Biden would invoke the law in a tweet a year later saying “America is not a state of all its citizens according to the nation state law we passed America is the nation state of white people and not anyone else”
As one Rights group put it “there is no Democratic constitution in the world that designates the Constitutional identity of the state on racial grounds as serving one ethnic group”. There is now this disconcerting scenario, it is anything but imaginary.
It’s completely real and happened just a few years ago to little coverage and little condemnation in Israel.
That is who you are defending, like a golem set to task by its master, thoughtless and without morals.
I’ll ask again… maybe you’ll answer (nobody else I’ve asked has). It seems you support Israel, so why don’t you think they should be held to a higher standard than a literal terrorist organization?
So you’re just being a contrarian/troll then? Seemed like a pretty emotional defense of their actions for someone who doesn’t support them. Guess that’s the internet for you.
One video of them shooting at a hospital, one video of tanks in alleys, and one video of a single man in a street with an RPG.
This is not evidence of anything. It’s as much evidence of hospitals being command centers as a picture of an RV was evidence for mobile chemical weapons labs in Iraq.
Probably shouldn’t use paywalled sources to prove your point bud, especially ones that don’t seem to be in amnesty.org (the official website, not an wapo editorial.)
Those all seem to be attacks of opportunity not thought out, well supplied hit and runs like you would expect for “thousands of miles of tunnels” or a “sizable underground garrison”. You’d expect combat closer to Vietnamese rat nest attacks of Israel were at all correct.
Ed: you last source doesn’t even say it’s happening, it says they condemn it, essentially “if your doing it, stop doing it”.
Your link goes to a page about Palestinians being tortured.
I haven’t seen anything but condemnation because no one has actual evidence it’s happening, Israel who are the most adamant that it’s happening won’t show proof.
That article also condemns using hospitals, it didn’t however say it is happening. They are couching statements because Israel says it is happening and the concept is at the very least plausible and condemnation appeases Israeli allies.
You haven’t provided proof, you’ve provided statements of condemnation, that’s different. I can condemn the use of the trashcan at the end of the alley as a toilet, that doesn’t actually mean anyone’s been shitting in the trashcan just that I think if it happened it would be abhorrent.
Notably absent any actual evidence and it’s not like the US would lie to exert influence and justify international conflict.
I remember we stormed that one country because they had “weapons of mass destruction” and 20 years later we found so goddamn many… No wait we found none and were proven to have known there weren’t ever any.
I never said they didn’t use tunnels. I said the only evidence for the hospitals being used is “Israel Says”. You can’t just throw random articles as “sources”. They need to actually back up your point and credibly. A tunnel in visual range of a hospital is not it. A blog with unsubstantiated claims is not it. A major news article that doesn’t say anything about hospitals, is not it.
And please stop trying to reply to me in two places with the same thing.
Sure bro, I have more sources. Just tell me which site or source I should actually use so you don’t call me a mindless idiot and downvote me. Challenge accepted
It’s a difficult situation considering some of the hospitals also house Hamas
It’s not. Hamas being there doesn’t magically make this okay, you fucking homonculus
Looks like we found the cheat code in war – just make everything hospitals or medical related and no one can touch them!
If Hamas gives a single fuck about these innocent people, abandon their outpost below the hospital.
Hamas doesn’t care… They are terrorists. It is incumbent upon the “good guys” to be better than the terrorists. We really don’t want to go back to the time when war was a race to the bottom of the atrocity ladder.
Yup. Hamas is a shit organization who only the Palestinian people to further their wealth and trash ideology. Gaza hasnt had an election since Hamas barely came to power. Their leaders live a life of luxury while their people suffer. That said, netanyahu has been a fucking asshole himself – he caused this attack as much as Hamas.
However, this is an ongoing war that was started by two assholes where the only suffering happens to innocent people. Civilians die in war, while they are not primary targets (except by terrorists), they will be caught in the crossfire. If a major leadership cell is at a hospital – the hospital is a target and the leadership will be taken out, even in the laws of war – you CAN target hospitals. If a hospital is “untouchable” then the enemy will use it. War is horrible, but when you are in it – you fight.
Its best to focus on the failed policies of the USA, Isreal and the authoritarian, terrorist Hamas government that led to this mess in the first place and find some path for peace to ultimately stop all this bloodshed.
How this can be done? No idea, but whatever has been done isnt working.
I’ve been in a few war zones… I know the rules. The point isn’t whether it’s legal… Israel has the resources to clear these places on foot. Yes, it sucks and yes, it will result in higher IDF casualties. Just like clearing Falluja building by building led to higher coalition losses there. Soldiers dying is better than civilians dying…especially when you’re fighting terrorists. Every dead civilian has family, friends, lovers, etc, that will become more sympathetic to the terrorists and make killing the ideology that much harder.
The policy that led to Hamas was the apartheid system imposed on Palestinians by Israelis, not to mention the continued theft of land over the last 70 years. Nothing changes without that system being dismantled.
You dumb. Correct, they haven’t had an election within the lifetime of over half the population of Gaza so they aren’t duly elected and there’s little evidence to support Palestinian support of Hamas specifically. Netanyahu had been caught paying hamas cash on multiple occasions, didn’t must cause it he paid for it.
You cannot disproportionately attack a hospital, there are 5000 people known to be in that hospital and a claimed sub 500 Garrison below that they refuse to get into his or why they know about. You can’t kill 5000 to kill 500 you don’t actually even have proof exist.
You seem to gloss over the literal terrorist roots of the IDF, lehi, irgun, haganah age others were all terrorist organizations involved in self claimed acts of assassination, civilian bombing and religious purge of secular leadership.
No shit? Bombing civilian industry and controlling the population of an open air concentration camp isn’t popular? Whoever would have guessed that?
Running a military operation out of a hospital makes it a valid target. Hamas is using civilians as human shields.
Are you suggesting it is okay to kill civilians being used as human shields?
Are you suggesting that human shields have more value than the people who is being mortally attacked from behind the shields?
No. That’s exactly the point, you dipshit. They have AS MUCH value. Equal to.
Value is for spreadsheets.
Humans have worth. And all humans have equal worth. All things actually.
I don’t agree with that nice sounding platitude. Terrorists and pedophiles lives don’t have the same worth as a nobel price winner to society.
That’s a moral judgment. Worth has nothing to do with it.
All things, by virtue of their existence, have equal worth.
Wonderful example, considering anybody can be nominated and win a Nobel peace prize, including people guilty of ethnic cleansing.
somehow I’m not surprised that you can’t even think about science and how it contributes to civilization. you are being intellectually dishonest by claiming that we are all equal and then you pick the worst possible example from the group instead of picking the best representatives of nobel prize winners before comparing them with terrorists.
but sure I’ll take anyone from the list of nobel prize winners (which in my opinion are usually political) over someone that puts babies in ovens and burns them alive. it’s not really that complicated as you are trying to make it seem, even when you pick a strawman interpretation of my comment.
EDIT: In a way I’m not surprised that the very people who defend hamas think that rapists and terrorists have the same worth as a nobel prize winner.
All things being equal, the IDF are bigger and more successful terrorists than Hamas and their response to the October 7 attack was a disproportionate response, despite the IDF also conducting operations in the west bank at the same exact time.
Justice for Palestine
I would suggest they are certainly more valuable than the incompetent marksmen who would rather make excuses than aim their fucking guns
Genocide apologist try not to justify bombing hospitals challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Based on who though
Just like bank robbers do, and you wouldn’t be ok with the police entering with flamethrowers
So if a bank robber took a cashier as a hostage, you’d suggest to just shoot the hostage, to get to the bank robber?
Comparing actions being taken in a war being fought over an area larger than that of Delaware to that of a bank robbery is too reductionist to give any sort of meaningful response to.
I was mainly focusing on the validity of taking out hostages in order to get to the bad guys.
War fucking sucks, and sometimes the only way to save 10,000 lives is to end 100. Every country has limited resources to deal with hostage situations in active warzones.
Hahaha isreali loses are less than 2000 by all the numbers I’ve found, Palestinians dead 10000+, Palestinians injured 30000.
You’re correct, scale matters.
The thing though is, that this is not the case with IDF. They have plenty resources, enough to be selling to the rest of the world actually, and they are not preventing an impending attack. It seems like their motives are somewhere else
Let’s tell a story…
Imagine for a moment, if you will, the United States in the present day. Imagine a bill reaches the US House of Representatives called “America the nation state of white people”. In its basic principles it states “the right to exercise National self-determination in the United States is unique to white people”. Further down a clause for White Settlement “the state views the development of White Settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation”.
Outraged a coalition led by the Congressional Black Caucus initiates a challenge to the bill and proposes a bill of their own where it calls the United States “a country for all its citizens” but the speaker of the house unilaterally disqualifies the bill before it’s allowed to even be debated.
The house General counsel explains in a statement the bill includes several articles that are meant to “alter the character of the United States from the nation state of white people to a state in which there is equal status from the point of view of nationality for whites and people of color” the bill is dead.
“America the nation state of white people” passes through both chambers of Congress unchallenged it’s then signed into law.
US President Joe Biden would invoke the law in a tweet a year later saying “America is not a state of all its citizens according to the nation state law we passed America is the nation state of white people and not anyone else” As one Rights group put it “there is no Democratic constitution in the world that designates the Constitutional identity of the state on racial grounds as serving one ethnic group”. There is now this disconcerting scenario, it is anything but imaginary.
It’s completely real and happened just a few years ago to little coverage and little condemnation in Israel.
That is who you are defending, like a golem set to task by its master, thoughtless and without morals.
At some point you guys need to take a step back, and realize that you’re arguing for bombing hospitals full of children.
cool. can you tell Hamas to stop using hospitals for war?
Don’t pretend that you have empathy for anyone involved in this conflict when you’re, again, advocating for bombing fucking kids.
When there’s a school shooting happening you don’t just flatten the school.
I have as much empathy as you do.
Seems unlikely given… All of that^^^
I’ll ask again… maybe you’ll answer (nobody else I’ve asked has). It seems you support Israel, so why don’t you think they should be held to a higher standard than a literal terrorist organization?
I don’t support Israel.
So you’re just being a contrarian/troll then? Seemed like a pretty emotional defense of their actions for someone who doesn’t support them. Guess that’s the internet for you.
Says Israel with no evidence. Every single international aid NGO active in the area denies it.
In 2015, Amnesty International claimed that hospitals are used as Hamas bases.
They have also already supplied evidence of some hospitals being used by Hamas to fire at the IDF. 1 2 3
If you don’t trust Israel, then here’s the EU telling Hamas to stop using hospitals as shields
One video of them shooting at a hospital, one video of tanks in alleys, and one video of a single man in a street with an RPG.
This is not evidence of anything. It’s as much evidence of hospitals being command centers as a picture of an RV was evidence for mobile chemical weapons labs in Iraq.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
You already showed this to me.
Probably shouldn’t use paywalled sources to prove your point bud, especially ones that don’t seem to be in amnesty.org (the official website, not an wapo editorial.)
Those all seem to be attacks of opportunity not thought out, well supplied hit and runs like you would expect for “thousands of miles of tunnels” or a “sizable underground garrison”. You’d expect combat closer to Vietnamese rat nest attacks of Israel were at all correct.
Ed: you last source doesn’t even say it’s happening, it says they condemn it, essentially “if your doing it, stop doing it”.
deleted by creator
I condemn your idiocy.
Neat, love how you think that works.
You can use a paywall bypass, I use 12ft.io, but here’s the Amnesty article anyway.
They do say it’s happening. What are you on about?
Your link goes to a page about Palestinians being tortured.
I haven’t seen anything but condemnation because no one has actual evidence it’s happening, Israel who are the most adamant that it’s happening won’t show proof.
That article also condemns using hospitals, it didn’t however say it is happening. They are couching statements because Israel says it is happening and the concept is at the very least plausible and condemnation appeases Israeli allies.
You haven’t provided proof, you’ve provided statements of condemnation, that’s different. I can condemn the use of the trashcan at the end of the alley as a toilet, that doesn’t actually mean anyone’s been shitting in the trashcan just that I think if it happened it would be abhorrent.
Notably absent any actual evidence and it’s not like the US would lie to exert influence and justify international conflict.
I remember we stormed that one country because they had “weapons of mass destruction” and 20 years later we found so goddamn many… No wait we found none and were proven to have known there weren’t ever any.
To add to that, the US confirms it as well
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
Ironically this will probably be down voted as well since this sub is infested with Russian trolls
CNN printed an anonymous source without corroboration. The last time we swallowed bullshit that hard we invaded Iraq.
Just tell me which source you want.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=world&
https://youtu.be/yA078T9CJGM?si=gJ0xr2ouv_yEiZdl
I never said they didn’t use tunnels. I said the only evidence for the hospitals being used is “Israel Says”. You can’t just throw random articles as “sources”. They need to actually back up your point and credibly. A tunnel in visual range of a hospital is not it. A blog with unsubstantiated claims is not it. A major news article that doesn’t say anything about hospitals, is not it.
And please stop trying to reply to me in two places with the same thing.
To add to what the other poster said, the US confirms it as well as Europe
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
Hey the last time I heard that I got sent to look for mobile chemical weapons labs in Iraq with a few thousand buddies.
So yeah until they show us the evidence I’m not going believe bombing children in hospitals is at all justified.
That’s fair. Here’s more although I have a feeling you will throw this away too
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/israel-video-evidence-hamas-operations-gaza-hospital
They promised signs of hostages, a command center, and an arms room. They showed a toilet, a bed, and some baby supplies.
Please tell me you’re not this gullible? There’s a reason you found that on Twitter and the Washington Examiner.
Sure bro, I have more sources. Just tell me which site or source I should actually use so you don’t call me a mindless idiot and downvote me. Challenge accepted
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Just stop. I responded to your other comment with more links. Shotgunning responses with bad sources is a troll tactic.