It’s amazing that people are even questioning taking out Hamas… Do they actually not understand that the reason the children are in danger is because they have hesitated when Hamas has done this in the past - using the children as human shields?
What kind of absolute sociopath would trade the thousands of lives Hamas will take if they’re allowed to live, just because they use the world’s humanity against it?
When it costs one life to save millions and there is no choice because the evil Hamas has set this price, it must be paid.
Shame on Hamas for putting these children in danger. May they rot in hell for their horrifying, demonic and evil sin.
The problem is that Hamas is not just an organization, it’s also the ideology of resistance to the Israeli occupation. You can’t take out an ideology. Even if Hamas the organization is gone, another one will take its place.
The only way to take out such an organization is to eliminate the reason why it exists. It’s definitely not easy, and it takes a lot of negotiations and goodwill, making amends and getting over a lot of bad history. But waging war is achieving the exact opposite of that, and only creating the conditions for future conflicts.
The trouble is, the reason Hamas and similar groups exist it that Israel exists. Many people in Palestine, and also people in neighbouring countries and many Muslims who aren’t even directly involved, believe that the whole place should be a pure Muslim country. I’ve literally seen people protest for this on the streets here. How do you suggest that solution should be enforced?
They will not accept a country that has women and LGBTQ rights, music festivals, etc. in between them. They protested and attacked these targets for a reason for several decades now.
I just wish the people who wish for the reason Hamas exists to be gone would at least be honest about all the consequences it entails. Otherwise this is just a very comfortable position of moral high ground where people can claim they protect the victims but they won’t think any further.
Well I think everybody knows exactly how to do that then, and it’s the exact opposite of what’s happening right now.
It’s almost like Israel and it’s supporters are shocked that a resistance movement formed in response to them murdering civilians and destroying homes of innocent families. Maybe it’s not the moral response, but no one can claim to be surprised by it.
Curious to know if you think shooting down United 93 on 9/11 would have been the right thing to do or not? (had the US Airforce got there in time). What say you?
Will the criminals take more hostage if we don’t act? Are the hostage takers willing to return the hostages safely? Is it feasible to attempt a rescue operation that doesn’t just put many more at risk? Does this criminal organization’s continued existence have a human life cost to it?
Not the same thing. The hostage takers in your example are only posing a danger to the hostages themselves. There is no outside harm caused by deciding not to act. Hamas on the other hand poses a real danger to Israel. Not counter attacking Hamas would result in attacks on Israeli citizens, so Israel has to act.
Hamas is using the hospital as an unethical way of shielding itself from such counter attacks because they know Western war philosophy aims to minimize civilian casualties, so attacks on hospitals hurt Israels global support.
However, by operating from within a hospital, Hamas are making the hospital a valid military target. Minimizing civilian casualties goes both ways. You don’t attack hospitals unless they are a valid military target and you don’t set up military operations inside hospitals so as to prevent them from becoming valid military targets.
Shame on Israel for treating a people the way they have for so long so that the only outcome could be Hamas.
If you torture an animal and it bites, who’s to blame? People like you have a very short term memory it seems, unwilling to look at how this situation was brought about.
You cannot treat people the way Israel has treated them and then get up in arms when you meet resistance.
People aren’t animals, though. They can take responsibility for their own decisions.
Also, where do you draw the line? You could take the same argument the other way around and claim Israel doesn’t actually commit war crimes. It’s because most of them are Jewish and they have been mass murdered multiple times throughout human history. They are now just fighting tooth and nail for having a safe place at least once in history.
It doesn’t work to be on one side if people want to resolve this conflict. Unless you literally want the other side to be completely annihilated.
They are now just fighting tooth and nail for having a safe place at least once in history.
Oh sure, Israel is just defending itself from an evil aggressor! It’s not imprisoning an entire people, robbing them of everything they have, taking over their land, routinely kidnapping and torturing their children, reducing cities to rubble, installing a system of apartheid, and ethnically cleansing the area.
Nope, none of that is happening and Hamas does what it does just because they are evil in nature.
Unless you literally want the other side to be completely annihilated.
If you look at what is happening and what the leadership in Israel routinely states, you’d understand that it is Israel that is annihilating Palestine. Instead you fall for sound bites and propaganda because you’re either too lazy or dishonest to figure out what is going on.
"WHY DID YOU MAKE ME DO THIS? Your fighting, so you watch everyone around you die, THINK MARK, you’ll outlast every fragile, insignificant being on this planet. You’ll live to see this world crumble to dust and BLOW AWAY!
Everyone, and everything you know, WILL BE GONE… WHAT WILL YOU HAVE AFTER 500 YEARS?"
Look at how many Palestinians have been killed vs Israelis. Just look at the numbers. What kind of psychopath is willing to kill even more people who have been being killed and oppressed for almost a century?
If this is a justification you accept for this level of violence from Isreal, then you can’t argue against anything Hamas has done without being a hypocrite.
And on a purely emotionless evaluation of the numbers, this kind of response from Isreal hasn’t worked for 80 years, but they keep killing innocent people. Maybe it’s time to try something else. Unless of course that’s not actually the reason.
It’s amazing that people are even questioning taking out Hamas… Do they actually not understand that the reason the children are in danger is because they have hesitated when Hamas has done this in the past - using the children as human shields?
What kind of absolute sociopath would trade the thousands of lives Hamas will take if they’re allowed to live, just because they use the world’s humanity against it?
When it costs one life to save millions and there is no choice because the evil Hamas has set this price, it must be paid.
Shame on Hamas for putting these children in danger. May they rot in hell for their horrifying, demonic and evil sin.
The problem is that Hamas is not just an organization, it’s also the ideology of resistance to the Israeli occupation. You can’t take out an ideology. Even if Hamas the organization is gone, another one will take its place.
The only way to take out such an organization is to eliminate the reason why it exists. It’s definitely not easy, and it takes a lot of negotiations and goodwill, making amends and getting over a lot of bad history. But waging war is achieving the exact opposite of that, and only creating the conditions for future conflicts.
I think they’re aiming for plan B. Commit genocide so there’s no one left who maintains that ideology.
The trouble is, the reason Hamas and similar groups exist it that Israel exists. Many people in Palestine, and also people in neighbouring countries and many Muslims who aren’t even directly involved, believe that the whole place should be a pure Muslim country. I’ve literally seen people protest for this on the streets here. How do you suggest that solution should be enforced?
They will not accept a country that has women and LGBTQ rights, music festivals, etc. in between them. They protested and attacked these targets for a reason for several decades now.
I just wish the people who wish for the reason Hamas exists to be gone would at least be honest about all the consequences it entails. Otherwise this is just a very comfortable position of moral high ground where people can claim they protect the victims but they won’t think any further.
Well I think everybody knows exactly how to do that then, and it’s the exact opposite of what’s happening right now.
It’s almost like Israel and it’s supporters are shocked that a resistance movement formed in response to them murdering civilians and destroying homes of innocent families. Maybe it’s not the moral response, but no one can claim to be surprised by it.
Killing the children now will definitely save them from being killed later. Infallible logic.
To be clear, if some criminal has human hostages you’re fine if the building they are in is torched?
Curious to know if you think shooting down United 93 on 9/11 would have been the right thing to do or not? (had the US Airforce got there in time). What say you?
You are the seventh person to not answer the question…
Will the criminals take more hostage if we don’t act? Are the hostage takers willing to return the hostages safely? Is it feasible to attempt a rescue operation that doesn’t just put many more at risk? Does this criminal organization’s continued existence have a human life cost to it?
So you think it’s okay to burn down a hospital if it means stopping Hamas? Even if the hospital has babies in incubators?
Remind me, what was plastered on ads and social media from Israel earlier last month? Something about dead babies… what was it again?
Not the same thing. The hostage takers in your example are only posing a danger to the hostages themselves. There is no outside harm caused by deciding not to act. Hamas on the other hand poses a real danger to Israel. Not counter attacking Hamas would result in attacks on Israeli citizens, so Israel has to act. Hamas is using the hospital as an unethical way of shielding itself from such counter attacks because they know Western war philosophy aims to minimize civilian casualties, so attacks on hospitals hurt Israels global support. However, by operating from within a hospital, Hamas are making the hospital a valid military target. Minimizing civilian casualties goes both ways. You don’t attack hospitals unless they are a valid military target and you don’t set up military operations inside hospitals so as to prevent them from becoming valid military targets.
To be clear, you think it’s okay to attack a hospital, even ones with babies on incubators?
Remind me, what was Israel plastering on ads and social media earlier last month? Something about Hamas beheading babies?
I pretty much stop listening when the word ‘evil’ is used.
You sound like the IDF and I don’t trust or respect your POV because of your obvious bias.
Shame on Israel for treating a people the way they have for so long so that the only outcome could be Hamas.
If you torture an animal and it bites, who’s to blame? People like you have a very short term memory it seems, unwilling to look at how this situation was brought about.
You cannot treat people the way Israel has treated them and then get up in arms when you meet resistance.
People aren’t animals, though. They can take responsibility for their own decisions.
Also, where do you draw the line? You could take the same argument the other way around and claim Israel doesn’t actually commit war crimes. It’s because most of them are Jewish and they have been mass murdered multiple times throughout human history. They are now just fighting tooth and nail for having a safe place at least once in history.
It doesn’t work to be on one side if people want to resolve this conflict. Unless you literally want the other side to be completely annihilated.
Oh sure, Israel is just defending itself from an evil aggressor! It’s not imprisoning an entire people, robbing them of everything they have, taking over their land, routinely kidnapping and torturing their children, reducing cities to rubble, installing a system of apartheid, and ethnically cleansing the area.
Nope, none of that is happening and Hamas does what it does just because they are evil in nature.
If you look at what is happening and what the leadership in Israel routinely states, you’d understand that it is Israel that is annihilating Palestine. Instead you fall for sound bites and propaganda because you’re either too lazy or dishonest to figure out what is going on.
Did you read the post I was responding to? That’s important for context.
Dogma detected
"WHY DID YOU MAKE ME DO THIS? Your fighting, so you watch everyone around you die, THINK MARK, you’ll outlast every fragile, insignificant being on this planet. You’ll live to see this world crumble to dust and BLOW AWAY!
Everyone, and everything you know, WILL BE GONE… WHAT WILL YOU HAVE AFTER 500 YEARS?"
You sound like Marks Dad…
I feel the same way about billionaires. March them all to the guillotine.
Look at how many Palestinians have been killed vs Israelis. Just look at the numbers. What kind of psychopath is willing to kill even more people who have been being killed and oppressed for almost a century?
If this is a justification you accept for this level of violence from Isreal, then you can’t argue against anything Hamas has done without being a hypocrite.
And on a purely emotionless evaluation of the numbers, this kind of response from Isreal hasn’t worked for 80 years, but they keep killing innocent people. Maybe it’s time to try something else. Unless of course that’s not actually the reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecaYxjWMwiI
If we read Netanyahu’s book, then I’m sure you’re right.
I’m not sure if there’s an opposing view.
Your bias is obvious, be more subtle.
I’m not happy about it. It certainly biases my viewpoint. He wasn’t doing a genocide at the time.