Hi, I escaped from r/solarpunk. Content Warning, this post is about raising animals for their meat, so may be upsetting to some. I’m putting this under farming because I couldn’t identify a better community (maybe food?) but I’d be happy to move this topic into a new, specific community if that can be done.
Something that’s been going in my mind for a bit is the role of backyard farming and homesteading in solarpunk. First caveat, I think vegetarianism/veganism for 99-100% of the diet of 99% of the population is a fantastic goal, but I think we need to have solutions for the interim where society is still coming around to the idea. Even people who want the best for the planet and animals might be intimidated by the prospect of veganism or even vegetarianism, whether or not they have sound reason for this.
While we’re still reliant on animal meat, I think that moving our animal raising from big factory farms into local smallholdings or even our backyards would help immensely. On one hand, the welfare of a factory-farmed chicken pales in comparison to that of a chicken who grew up knowing love and foraging. Also, each meat-based meal that is grown at home or on a well-run smallholding diverts business from the factory farms that are killing our planet.
Quite frankly, I’m hoping to own chickens soon, mostly so I can have fresh/ethical eggs and share the same eggs with my community. But I’m not averse to raising chickens for meat either. In fact, my goal would be to stop eating meat entirely unless it came from my flock or a flock that I knew first hand was cared for to the same standards.
In my eyes, meat should be something you eat as a treat, and only if you can psychologically grapple with how it got to your plate and give due respect to the animal who provided it.
There’s a lot I’d like to discuss about this, and I think it’s important to discuss. I know the subject of veganism or lack thereof can get heated, but I think we need to have these hard conversations if we want to come together as a community with proper solutions for the future.
So tl:dr; does discussion of home-reared meat belong here? If so, does this align with anyone else’s goals?
Hi! I don’t doubt you have the best intentions, but as a vegan I think what you are proposing is still immoral (although obviously much less so than factory farming). I hope that you are willing to have a discussion with me, if not, feel free to say so or just ignore me.
What do you you think that would take? What would it take for you personally to come around to that idea?
I agree that it seems very intimidating. It certainly was for me. I could not imagine myself giving up meat, eggs and dairy. However it turned out to be much easier than I expected.
What I think however, is that when we set the long term goal right at where we want to get to, you are still more likely to have a greater impact. This video explains why that is probably more effective, citing scientific research.
Are we still reliant on meat? Maybe some people, but I think most people could switch to a healthy plant based diet if they wanted to. We would have a problem if everyone went vegan overnight, but that is not going to happen. As veganism gains in popularity, demand will change as a result, so will supply.
From an environmental perspective, you could argue that factory farming is better because it is more efficient. It has both downsides and upsides compared to backyard/organically raised animals. It would probably be very hard to create a world where backyard animals are accessible to most people.
Although the ethical concerns may be more obvious for meat, there are still concerns for eggs. Even from backyard chickens. That has to do with 1) Where do the male chicks go? Are you going to raise those too? Or will you only buy hens, in which case the male chicks are probably killed by the seller of the hens. 2) Chickens have been artificially selected to produce an insane amount of eggs compared to their wild ancestors. This has negative health implications. For example, they often struggle keeping their bones strong because a lot of calcium is needed for the egg shells.
I think this is better than being completely disconnected from the animals. But I would argue that you can’t respectfully kill an animal that does not need to die.
Like you, I just created a community. The idea of mine is to have discussions like this about the ethics over there. !debateavegan@slrpnk.net. If you are interested, maybe we can continue over there since I’m not sure it really fits here.
Hey! Thanks for engaging on this, I like the idea of moving it to the debate a vegan community, so I’ll reply in length there. But the spoiler is: I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, and can see your position on the stuff I don’t align with. But I’ll give details in my post on the debate community.
Even more so today than a century ago. Feed formulations from 100 years ago list a prize leghorn (the most prolific egg layers, and what most egg laying factory farms keep) producing about 100 eggs a year. Contrast that with today’s typical leghorns which produce 280 eggs a year. That’s what an average leghorn today can lay. Most of that can be attributed to how good we’ve gotten at feeding them over the years.
However, a chicken will cease laying eggs before she begins to struggle with weak bones. Typically it’s the eggshell which becomes weakened first. Or she may lay a shell-less egg. Or cease laying entirely.
This year there has been a shameful amount of people claiming that their chickens have stopped laying eggs because the feed producer is allegedly putting something in the subpar cheap feed to cease them laying. These people claim that once they put the chickens on a homemade feed-- which is often even worse than the already subpar commercial feed-- the chickens begin laying again. It’s a total lack of knowledge about chicken biology and embarrassing to watch. Chickens slow or stop production of eggs naturally during the winter or during molt. They may also stop when it becomes too hot. I’m not exaggerating when I say that each individual claiming this was feeding subpar, cheap, 16% protein layer feed with no additional supplemental calcium.
Anyway I’m getting too far in the weeds. I don’t particularly take issue with veganism, so I’m not trying to debate. Just offering some info.