Just stating the obvious. If it’s really religion banning donating organs, not only do they take bodily autonomy from you but also the chance to help save someone else’s life. That would be a shitty religion
The religion can’t “ban” you, they don’t have governmental authority or a police force. The person chooses to participate and chooses not to donate. Unless they live in a particularly authoritarian theocracy it is likely this is a choice.
I disagree entirely with their decision but it’s important to not wildly mischaracterize it as not a decision. They can be an organ donor if they want and live their lives if they choose.
Yeah I mean of course they (usually) can’t force you, but you’d go with religion’s guidelines because you trust on the authority and peer pressure, potentially also threatened with eternal damnation of some sort.
You actually can’t choose your beliefs. Either something convinces you or it doesn’t. They could choose to not live in accordance with their beliefs, or course, but that would be intellectually dishonest.
I didn’t say you can choose your beliefs. This person can decide if they want to adhere to the rules of a religious apparatus or not. Millions of religious people around the world do this every day. Most people even under the banner of a religious institution choose to ignore or downplay key elements constantly. See: Catholics who support a woman’s access to abortion. They are not in line with the church. They know this and choose not to be while still attending church and believing in most of the church’s teaching.
Most people do not adhere to 100% every rule and regulation of their faith. Believe it or not religious people are capable of nuance.
Just as a pro-tip, “No.” is a complete answer. You don’t need religious reasons.
I worked as a transplant coordinator, and we talked to a lot of different people from a lot of different religions. This is something I wish I could have said to everyone who ever told me no because of religious reasons: I really hope you don’t feel like you have to make up a reason.
We can start with, no organized religions specifically prohibit organ donation.
There are some religions, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, that probibit receiving blood transfusions, but organ donation doesn’t require blood transfusion, and the decision is left to the individual.
There are also some religions and folklore that believe the body must remain intact after death, but those beliefs are not consistent or particularly widespread. Some Shinto believers refuse donation to avoid angering the spirits of the dead, but that’s also an individual choice rather than an official position.
So when we would discuss how to approach people of varying faiths, it was important to understand the underlying reasons for objections to donations. It’s also important to recognize that, despite what is on your license, it’s really not up to you. The transplant coordinator is talking to your next of kin, and they will be the one making the final decision. If I’m talking to you about donation, it’s because someone close to you has died, and we’re not discussing your beliefs. We will discuss what they would have wanted.
Nine times out of ten, when someone would cite religious objections, they were not members of an obscure Roma group or Shinto practitioners. We do have a significant number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in our region, and our consent rates were roughly the same for those families. That might be different depending on where you live.
Far more likely for our region, people were using “religious reasons” as a social trump card that gives them an out without looking selfish. Donation is an uncomfortable concept for a lot of people, and you’re talking to them at one of the worst times in their lives. Not everyone is up for having that conversation, and any transplant coordinator will understand when someone says “no.” Still, a lot of people think they will get pressured to do something they aren’t confortable with, and will make arguments they think “win” the discussion in the shortest amount of time.
The key is, I’m not going to tell you what you believe. I’m not your spiritual advisor or religious leader. I can help navigate those waters if asked, but if you say you have religious objections, I don’t need to know what they are. You don’t want to donate.
When I spoke with families, I was advocating for the people waiting for a transplant. There are people living better lives today because I was able to persuade donor families to overcome their objections. My second priority was making the process as comfortable for the families as possible. It made no difference to me whether those objections were religious or personal. If someone wanted to talk about it, we’d talk about it. If they couldn’t, we didn’t.
Others have mentioned in this thread that donors are exceptionally rare. Few people die in a way that makes donation possible. So when they do, their families are presented a unique situation where they are in a position to help others. Most people will help other people when they can, but the ones that don’t aren’t lesser humans. It isn’t selfish to say that it’s too much, too painful, too disturbing to think about. Because it is. You’re in the acute phase of a significant loss. You do not need to justify your feelings, and you should not feel defensive about what you want for your loved one.
If you don’t want to talk to someone about donation, you can just say “No.”
I am curious, what are your religious beliefs on this? And would you be willing to accept a donated organ to save your life?
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted for answering the question. Yes, lemmy tends to have fewer religious people, but it’s upsetting that others are quick to downvote anyone expressing their religious beliefs. Personally I am agnostic, however I respect that everyone has the right to their beliefs.
No. Religious reasons
That’s a shitty religion then
I think we can be a little more respectful in our disagreement no?
Just stating the obvious. If it’s really religion banning donating organs, not only do they take bodily autonomy from you but also the chance to help save someone else’s life. That would be a shitty religion
The religion bans desecrating corpses, which includes dissection. Donating organs while alive is Ok
I stand with my original statement, if the religion favors dead over the living.
The religion can’t “ban” you, they don’t have governmental authority or a police force. The person chooses to participate and chooses not to donate. Unless they live in a particularly authoritarian theocracy it is likely this is a choice.
I disagree entirely with their decision but it’s important to not wildly mischaracterize it as not a decision. They can be an organ donor if they want and live their lives if they choose.
Yeah I mean of course they (usually) can’t force you, but you’d go with religion’s guidelines because you trust on the authority and peer pressure, potentially also threatened with eternal damnation of some sort.
Didn’t say it was a fair fight
You actually can’t choose your beliefs. Either something convinces you or it doesn’t. They could choose to not live in accordance with their beliefs, or course, but that would be intellectually dishonest.
I didn’t say you can choose your beliefs. This person can decide if they want to adhere to the rules of a religious apparatus or not. Millions of religious people around the world do this every day. Most people even under the banner of a religious institution choose to ignore or downplay key elements constantly. See: Catholics who support a woman’s access to abortion. They are not in line with the church. They know this and choose not to be while still attending church and believing in most of the church’s teaching.
Most people do not adhere to 100% every rule and regulation of their faith. Believe it or not religious people are capable of nuance.
Did you not read my second sentence then?
Yes. Clearly I did. If you’re not going to to respond substantively than just don’t respond.
Just as a pro-tip, “No.” is a complete answer. You don’t need religious reasons.
I worked as a transplant coordinator, and we talked to a lot of different people from a lot of different religions. This is something I wish I could have said to everyone who ever told me no because of religious reasons: I really hope you don’t feel like you have to make up a reason.
We can start with, no organized religions specifically prohibit organ donation.
There are some religions, like Jehovah’s Witnesses, that probibit receiving blood transfusions, but organ donation doesn’t require blood transfusion, and the decision is left to the individual.
There are also some religions and folklore that believe the body must remain intact after death, but those beliefs are not consistent or particularly widespread. Some Shinto believers refuse donation to avoid angering the spirits of the dead, but that’s also an individual choice rather than an official position.
So when we would discuss how to approach people of varying faiths, it was important to understand the underlying reasons for objections to donations. It’s also important to recognize that, despite what is on your license, it’s really not up to you. The transplant coordinator is talking to your next of kin, and they will be the one making the final decision. If I’m talking to you about donation, it’s because someone close to you has died, and we’re not discussing your beliefs. We will discuss what they would have wanted.
Nine times out of ten, when someone would cite religious objections, they were not members of an obscure Roma group or Shinto practitioners. We do have a significant number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in our region, and our consent rates were roughly the same for those families. That might be different depending on where you live.
Far more likely for our region, people were using “religious reasons” as a social trump card that gives them an out without looking selfish. Donation is an uncomfortable concept for a lot of people, and you’re talking to them at one of the worst times in their lives. Not everyone is up for having that conversation, and any transplant coordinator will understand when someone says “no.” Still, a lot of people think they will get pressured to do something they aren’t confortable with, and will make arguments they think “win” the discussion in the shortest amount of time.
The key is, I’m not going to tell you what you believe. I’m not your spiritual advisor or religious leader. I can help navigate those waters if asked, but if you say you have religious objections, I don’t need to know what they are. You don’t want to donate.
When I spoke with families, I was advocating for the people waiting for a transplant. There are people living better lives today because I was able to persuade donor families to overcome their objections. My second priority was making the process as comfortable for the families as possible. It made no difference to me whether those objections were religious or personal. If someone wanted to talk about it, we’d talk about it. If they couldn’t, we didn’t.
Others have mentioned in this thread that donors are exceptionally rare. Few people die in a way that makes donation possible. So when they do, their families are presented a unique situation where they are in a position to help others. Most people will help other people when they can, but the ones that don’t aren’t lesser humans. It isn’t selfish to say that it’s too much, too painful, too disturbing to think about. Because it is. You’re in the acute phase of a significant loss. You do not need to justify your feelings, and you should not feel defensive about what you want for your loved one.
If you don’t want to talk to someone about donation, you can just say “No.”
What a thoughtful and informative response. Thank you for this!
I am curious, what are your religious beliefs on this? And would you be willing to accept a donated organ to save your life?
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted for answering the question. Yes, lemmy tends to have fewer religious people, but it’s upsetting that others are quick to downvote anyone expressing their religious beliefs. Personally I am agnostic, however I respect that everyone has the right to their beliefs.