Hey, quick question unrelated to that obviously insane thing you just said: You posted a while back about how upset you were Joe Biden betrayed everyone, after he promised to decriminalize marijuana, and then didn’t do it even though he could literally do it at any time he wanted and that’s just one more example of him being shit. I listed out the things he had done (basically: federal pardons for possession, telling the DEA to reschedule it, and putting a decriminalization bill through congress), and then I asked you what else you would like him to do.
I think your post got removed as misinformation right after that, so I never got a chance to hear the answer. What else was it that you wanted him to do? That he could do literally any time, that you were upset that he betrayed everyone who voted for him by not doing?
Surely, since your goal is to push Biden left, not to just oppose him at every turn and make sure he doesn’t get elected, you are interested in non-propaganda information and discussion on topics like this.
There’s absolutely nothing racist Joe “I don’t want my kids to grow up in a racial jungle” Biden can do at this point to earn my vote. He lost it.
Edit: also, politicians are not your friends. We should also force them to the real left regardless if it upsets some or not. You’re continually wanting to just continue the status quo.
I sorta had a feeling you wouldn’t make even the slightest effort to defend that bullshit you had said.
politicians are not your friends
No, politicians are not at all your friends. What you mean when you say “support” for Biden or that Biden betrayed us, or that thing shills sometimes say about “falling in line behind” the Democrats and how they don’t want to do it, is very weird to me.
Nobody in politics is your friend. The government is just a big, corrupt, very dangerous machine. It runs on money and propaganda and defense contractors, and sometimes good things come out of it and sometimes bad things, and Biden is one little cog in that machine. That’s why I’m comfortable saying good things that Biden did, or that he’s doing a very bad thing by enabling a genocide – I’m not viewing either of those as a statement of my “allegiance.” It’s just, like, hey I am a free person and here is how I am viewing the world and what the truth is.
Ralph Nader did an excellent interview talking about productive ways to push the Democrats to the left, and how upset he was at Democratic voters who were throwing away an opportunity to get some concessions from the Biden administration in exchange for their vote. His viewpoint makes a ton of sense to me.
Your viewpoint – sort of based on emotion, this sort of teenager mentality like “YOU’RE DEAD TO ME NOW I’LL CALL UNCLE TRUMP TO COME OVER AND BURN THE HOUSE DOWN BECAUSE WHO CARES YOU BROKE MY HEART” coupled with a lot of the sins you’re accusing him of actually being things he didn’t do, is just weird. Like, if you want to push Biden left, fuckin go for it man. Sounds great. But if you’ve decided that if Trump comes to power and nukes Iran and makes being gay illegal and puts all the Hispanics in camps and cancels the next election, that’s just the price the country will pay because Biden said this wrong thing about racism and it was so hurtful to you and he’s definitely a bad person and that good person / bad person is even relevant to how to vote, then okay sure. I won’t tell you not to. But I don’t think you should pretend that I’m the one treating my politicians in a strange parasocial non sensible way.
Lawrence’s quote:
“If you want to pull the major party that is closest to what you’re thinking, you must-YOU MUST-show them that you’re capable of NOT voting for them. If you don’t show them you’re capable of not voting for them, they don’t have to listen to you. I promise you that. I worked within the Democratic Party. I didn’t listen or have to listen to anything on the left while I was working within the Democratic Party, because the left had nowhere to go.” – Lawrence O’Donnell on the 2006 documentary, ‘An Unreasonable Man’.
He’s apparently an idiot, since every time Democrats haven’t won, the entire country has been dragged right.
Immigration is an interesting example of this. Funny enough, when Democrats were in power, policy trended further and further left with amnesty for dreamers and accepting refugees. After losing in 2016, the Democrat position has moved towards stronger enforcement and border security.
If Lawrence has not changed his mind since then, he’s a giant fucking idiot who doesn’t see reality. The problem with not voting for Democrats is that it means Republicans win, and they have a habit of moving all issues to the right.
You want the party to move left? Elect more progressives. Understand why voters are picking moderates over progressives in primaries, and course correct. It isn’t dark money, because there’s been plenty of that thrown around, and fake progressives have had more on hand versus their primary opponents.
And then, even with all the justification all the progressives had for quitting from the political system – basically on par with if the US was directly sending 19-year-old US citizens over to Gaza and having them blow up hospitals and get their balls shot off, or if Biden himself were approving of the brutalizing of protestors, like sending them to the hospital with nightstick fractures, not “just” pepper spraying them and putting cuffs on them – I feel like you can draw this absolutely direct line from 1968 and the disillusionment that stemmed from it into the grim nightmare politics that took over in America, because only the assholes were still voting, from Nixon to Reagan to Clinton until now we have just a wreckage of a system that someone from the 60s wouldn’t even recognize.
Basically I feel like 2016 was a repetition of that same betrayal, and I’m really hoping that 2024 isn’t a repetition of the same fascist takeover that’s enabled by it, because now we’re much much closer to the edge. Daniel Ellsberg said that all the things Nixon did to him that formed one piece of his collapse and fall, they’re all legal now.
I think something we often forget is that people can have spot on analysis and very intellectual takes in the past, but it doesn’t necessarily mean their modern takes are also good. Sometimes that’s an inherent thing too because of changing times. People who criticized US actions in the cold war were likely right – but a lot of them have adopted the imperialist position today that Ukraine belongs to Russia and it should be a pawn between NATO and Russia, instead of a self sovereign country that makes its own decisions.
Makes you wonder a bit how things will develop in the future, but I digress.
I think there’s probably a tendency for a lot of well meaning people to blame Democrats because their civics knowledge is less than comprehensive. And I don’t blame them entirely for that, our education system isn’t great.
Back in the Clinton/Bush era 20 years ago when he said that, I actually think it made quite a bit of sense. The Democrats were a lot more corporate-friendly (dropping corporate tax instead of raising it like Biden did, boosting the WTO instead of telling them to go fuck themselves like Biden did), and the Republicans weren’t trying to kill their political opponents or put minority groups into literal concentration camps.
I’m not even gonna comment on “‘they’ keep scrubbing it from YouTube.”
I know that if I was a Palestine protestor, and President Biden was going to speak, and the college said that they would immediately just end the ceremony if things got too out of hand, I would immediately think “Well that definitely wouldn’t be a good outcome. I better quiet down; I was going to have this big protest, but if it’ll end the commencement ceremony entirely, then I won’t, because that would attract some attention to the cause I’m trying to promote. It might make the news or something. I’m scared of that outcome and wouldn’t want it to happen; that threat is effective.”
Your conclusion makes perfect sense that the crowd was mostly filled with people who were seething with contempt for Joe Biden, but cowed into obedient sitting-facing-towards-him by the threat that if they made too much ruckus, it would successfully disrupt the event.
How many Palestinian graduates were there at the HBCU today, genius?
Also, half the staff didn’t want Biden there…
In a split vote, Morehouse faculty votes to award Biden an honorary doctorate.
A procedural oversight turned the faculty vote into a way for staff members to voice their opposition to Biden’s visit. The vote was 50-38, with roughly a dozen people abstaining.
I notice that this conversation has a very particular type of flow – Innuendo Studios talked about this in Never Play Defense.
Actually, I went back and looked at it’s significantly worse than the example the video constructs. The video’s example was dishonest, but the exchange was actually pretty coherent. I think this message is a particularly strong example of the flow you’ve been doing – where I say the protestors are right and I’m glad that Biden is letting them speak and hope he will take their message on board because what he’s doing right now is wrong, and then you get all hostile while lecturing me that not everyone who disagrees with Biden is a Republican. The Republicans in the video are never bad-faith to that comical a level, although the overall flow of “wild new assertion / coherent response / repeat” is pretty similar.
What’s your point? You’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change your mind. That was never the goal. There’s a reason I don’t type out a novel for every response like you do. Because I don’t really care. We’re getting Trump again and it’s all Biden’s fault.
Chin up boyo! You said you were gonna keep doing this all the way until the election. That’s like 6 more months, you can’t get all downhearted about it already just about some messages explaining why this one was bullshit too.
This doesn’t at all say they had to do this “or else,” it only talks about disruptions, not protests, and no one was compelled to be there. You literally started this thread with an article about some students who protested without causing a disruption, dufus
And half of the crowd not standing because they were threatened to be part of Biden’s propaganda “or else”.
Hey, quick question unrelated to that obviously insane thing you just said: You posted a while back about how upset you were Joe Biden betrayed everyone, after he promised to decriminalize marijuana, and then didn’t do it even though he could literally do it at any time he wanted and that’s just one more example of him being shit. I listed out the things he had done (basically: federal pardons for possession, telling the DEA to reschedule it, and putting a decriminalization bill through congress), and then I asked you what else you would like him to do.
I think your post got removed as misinformation right after that, so I never got a chance to hear the answer. What else was it that you wanted him to do? That he could do literally any time, that you were upset that he betrayed everyone who voted for him by not doing?
Surely, since your goal is to push Biden left, not to just oppose him at every turn and make sure he doesn’t get elected, you are interested in non-propaganda information and discussion on topics like this.
There’s absolutely nothing racist Joe “I don’t want my kids to grow up in a racial jungle” Biden can do at this point to earn my vote. He lost it.
Edit: also, politicians are not your friends. We should also force them to the real left regardless if it upsets some or not. You’re continually wanting to just continue the status quo.
I sorta had a feeling you wouldn’t make even the slightest effort to defend that bullshit you had said.
No, politicians are not at all your friends. What you mean when you say “support” for Biden or that Biden betrayed us, or that thing shills sometimes say about “falling in line behind” the Democrats and how they don’t want to do it, is very weird to me.
Nobody in politics is your friend. The government is just a big, corrupt, very dangerous machine. It runs on money and propaganda and defense contractors, and sometimes good things come out of it and sometimes bad things, and Biden is one little cog in that machine. That’s why I’m comfortable saying good things that Biden did, or that he’s doing a very bad thing by enabling a genocide – I’m not viewing either of those as a statement of my “allegiance.” It’s just, like, hey I am a free person and here is how I am viewing the world and what the truth is.
Ralph Nader did an excellent interview talking about productive ways to push the Democrats to the left, and how upset he was at Democratic voters who were throwing away an opportunity to get some concessions from the Biden administration in exchange for their vote. His viewpoint makes a ton of sense to me.
Your viewpoint – sort of based on emotion, this sort of teenager mentality like “YOU’RE DEAD TO ME NOW I’LL CALL UNCLE TRUMP TO COME OVER AND BURN THE HOUSE DOWN BECAUSE WHO CARES YOU BROKE MY HEART” coupled with a lot of the sins you’re accusing him of actually being things he didn’t do, is just weird. Like, if you want to push Biden left, fuckin go for it man. Sounds great. But if you’ve decided that if Trump comes to power and nukes Iran and makes being gay illegal and puts all the Hispanics in camps and cancels the next election, that’s just the price the country will pay because Biden said this wrong thing about racism and it was so hurtful to you and he’s definitely a bad person and that good person / bad person is even relevant to how to vote, then okay sure. I won’t tell you not to. But I don’t think you should pretend that I’m the one treating my politicians in a strange parasocial non sensible way.
Lawrence O’Donnell said it best in this extremely hard to find video because they keep scrubbing it from YouTube…
https://youtu.be/FqRNnIMDkUY
Edit:
He’s apparently an idiot, since every time Democrats haven’t won, the entire country has been dragged right.
Immigration is an interesting example of this. Funny enough, when Democrats were in power, policy trended further and further left with amnesty for dreamers and accepting refugees. After losing in 2016, the Democrat position has moved towards stronger enforcement and border security.
If Lawrence has not changed his mind since then, he’s a giant fucking idiot who doesn’t see reality. The problem with not voting for Democrats is that it means Republicans win, and they have a habit of moving all issues to the right.
You want the party to move left? Elect more progressives. Understand why voters are picking moderates over progressives in primaries, and course correct. It isn’t dark money, because there’s been plenty of that thrown around, and fake progressives have had more on hand versus their primary opponents.
Yeah. It’s a big shame. I read Lawrence O’Donnell’s book about 1968. It’s so fucking sad. I couldn’t finish.
And then, even with all the justification all the progressives had for quitting from the political system – basically on par with if the US was directly sending 19-year-old US citizens over to Gaza and having them blow up hospitals and get their balls shot off, or if Biden himself were approving of the brutalizing of protestors, like sending them to the hospital with nightstick fractures, not “just” pepper spraying them and putting cuffs on them – I feel like you can draw this absolutely direct line from 1968 and the disillusionment that stemmed from it into the grim nightmare politics that took over in America, because only the assholes were still voting, from Nixon to Reagan to Clinton until now we have just a wreckage of a system that someone from the 60s wouldn’t even recognize.
Basically I feel like 2016 was a repetition of that same betrayal, and I’m really hoping that 2024 isn’t a repetition of the same fascist takeover that’s enabled by it, because now we’re much much closer to the edge. Daniel Ellsberg said that all the things Nixon did to him that formed one piece of his collapse and fall, they’re all legal now.
I think something we often forget is that people can have spot on analysis and very intellectual takes in the past, but it doesn’t necessarily mean their modern takes are also good. Sometimes that’s an inherent thing too because of changing times. People who criticized US actions in the cold war were likely right – but a lot of them have adopted the imperialist position today that Ukraine belongs to Russia and it should be a pawn between NATO and Russia, instead of a self sovereign country that makes its own decisions.
Makes you wonder a bit how things will develop in the future, but I digress.
Hey, don’t bring history and facts into this, you’re gonna scare ozma!
And then…
https://readsludge.com/2024/03/27/biden-re-election-benefits-from-dark-money-he-says-erodes-public-trust/
Gosh, you mean that he’s playing by the rules that the republicans have put in place and not unilaterally disarming? How scandalous.
They should flush the entire “money is speech” concept, but until we can replace most of the SC with people who don’t suck, we work with what we got.
Oddly, sort of related to some of these same complainers sitting out 2016. Weird how elections can have consequences.
“Don’t threaten me with the supreme court!”
“Omg why did Biden let Roe get overturned?”
I think there’s probably a tendency for a lot of well meaning people to blame Democrats because their civics knowledge is less than comprehensive. And I don’t blame them entirely for that, our education system isn’t great.
Back in the Clinton/Bush era 20 years ago when he said that, I actually think it made quite a bit of sense. The Democrats were a lot more corporate-friendly (dropping corporate tax instead of raising it like Biden did, boosting the WTO instead of telling them to go fuck themselves like Biden did), and the Republicans weren’t trying to kill their political opponents or put minority groups into literal concentration camps.
I’m not even gonna comment on “‘they’ keep scrubbing it from YouTube.”
I’m starting to believe you’re secretly David Brock running a new PAC.
Source?
The threat…
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/16/us/morehouse-college-graduation-biden-commencement/index.html
I know that if I was a Palestine protestor, and President Biden was going to speak, and the college said that they would immediately just end the ceremony if things got too out of hand, I would immediately think “Well that definitely wouldn’t be a good outcome. I better quiet down; I was going to have this big protest, but if it’ll end the commencement ceremony entirely, then I won’t, because that would attract some attention to the cause I’m trying to promote. It might make the news or something. I’m scared of that outcome and wouldn’t want it to happen; that threat is effective.”
Your conclusion makes perfect sense that the crowd was mostly filled with people who were seething with contempt for Joe Biden, but cowed into obedient sitting-facing-towards-him by the threat that if they made too much ruckus, it would successfully disrupt the event.
How many Palestinian graduates were there at the HBCU today, genius?
Also, half the staff didn’t want Biden there…
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/morehouse-college-vote-award-biden-honorary-doctorate-degree-rcna151990
I notice that this conversation has a very particular type of flow – Innuendo Studios talked about this in Never Play Defense.
Actually, I went back and looked at it’s significantly worse than the example the video constructs. The video’s example was dishonest, but the exchange was actually pretty coherent. I think this message is a particularly strong example of the flow you’ve been doing – where I say the protestors are right and I’m glad that Biden is letting them speak and hope he will take their message on board because what he’s doing right now is wrong, and then you get all hostile while lecturing me that not everyone who disagrees with Biden is a Republican. The Republicans in the video are never bad-faith to that comical a level, although the overall flow of “wild new assertion / coherent response / repeat” is pretty similar.
What’s your point? You’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change your mind. That was never the goal. There’s a reason I don’t type out a novel for every response like you do. Because I don’t really care. We’re getting Trump again and it’s all Biden’s fault.
Chin up boyo! You said you were gonna keep doing this all the way until the election. That’s like 6 more months, you can’t get all downhearted about it already just about some messages explaining why this one was bullshit too.
Oh don’t worry, I’ll continue posting the rage inducing political news throughout the election. I’ve been doing it since 2015.
This doesn’t at all say they had to do this “or else,” it only talks about disruptions, not protests, and no one was compelled to be there. You literally started this thread with an article about some students who protested without causing a disruption, dufus
If you’re expecting coherence (or truth) out of ozma’s unhinged complaints, you’re expecting waaaaay too much.