• commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 month ago

    Factory farms won’t get better until demand reduces

    I don’t believe you have any proof of this. there is no mechanism by which reducing demand would improve factory farms.

    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      Why do factory farms use outdated slaughter techniques in the first place? Production quantity comes first. They will not reduce their capacity to produce meat just to make the animals lives better.

      Where’s the evidence that your idea is any better than mine anyways?

      • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 month ago

        Where’s the evidence that your idea is any better than mine anyways?

        i didn’t present any other idea. i said you don’t have any evidence your idea holds water.

        • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          I can’t predict the future if thats what you mean.

          Theres plenty of evidence that reducing meat production where possible will help everyone. Theres plenty of evidence that at least a mostly plant based diet is better for personal health for most people.

          Less animals suffering is a plus too but you could leave it out and still come to the conclusion that there is something behind plant based and partially plant based diets.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 month ago

            Less animals suffering is a plus too but you could leave it out and still come to the conclusion that there is something behind plant based and partially plant based diets.

            this is a nonsequitur. my guess is you have tried plant based diet, and the amount of animal slaughter has only increased: chart

            • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              We’ve had this argument like twice already.

              I never claimed that me being a vegan would end animal suffering.

              If you would admit that the line on your graph would go up quicker if all vegetarians and vegans went back to eating meat, then you have to also admit it would go up slower if more people went vegan, vegetarian, or simply ate 25% less meat than they normally do.

              You must be able to see the math there? Do I need to send you university debate level arguments? I can find them for you if you want.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                Do I need to send you university debate level arguments

                i’m not interested in debate. i’m interested in provable claims.

                • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  Should I use another commodity that saw reduced demand, which caused the supply to dwindle? Asbesthos? Does that work? Maybe cigarrettes?

                  What kind of proof do you want and I’ll go find it for you how’s that.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 month ago

                    what you’re presenting is a classic post hoc ergo propter hoc. both of those declined in production following the introduction of color television as well. we can’t very well say that color caused a reduced production. in fact, you haven’t actually presented any evidence that less asbethos or cigarettes are being produced.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 month ago

                    What kind of proof do you want and I’ll go find it for you how’s that.

                    i’d like proof of a causal mechanism by which choosing to buy beans has caused meat production to decline. i don’t think you can find any such causal mechanism.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                your graph would go up quicker if all vegetarians and vegans went back to eating meat,

                as i can’t prove a counterfactual, i wouldn’t make any such claim. i have no reason to believe that production could increase any faster.

                • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  I mean I can’t convince you that demand affects supply if you simply don’t think they are related.

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 month ago

                    i think supply creates its own demand, but i don’t believe there is any causal mechanism by which choosing to buy something causes more of it to be produced, nor that production causes others to purchase it.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                I never claimed that me being a vegan would end animal suffering.

                you did say it would reduce it, but all the evidence is that is not true.

                • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 month ago

                  You think, that I think, me personally being vegan will be the tipping point that causes a down trend in your graph?

                  • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 month ago

                    i’m saying if what you’re claiming is true, then it would follow that the growth of the industry would stop and reverse.

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                We’ve had this argument like twice already.

                and you still haven’t seemed to grasp the lack of evidence for your claim.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 month ago

            Theres plenty of evidence that reducing meat production where possible will help everyone.

            this is a different claim than you made before