You can literally enforce better conditions in farms, making factory farming practices illegal, and it’s possible we could’ve had the support required to make it happen.
If you amend your messaging and behavior even a little bit, it might still be possible.
How would we do that without dramatically reducing the amount of meat being produced?
As for the support, it sounds like you are blaming vegans for factory farmers actions. If they want to do things more humanely they are free to do it.
Its a waste of time in my opinion, and its hypocritical to be an animal activist who eats animals.
We can have a conversation about the ethical slaughterhouse in your mind but I guarantee you we will not agree on what is ethical treatment of an animal if thats the case.
Well, your graph could just as easily support my position as it could go against it.
I see a line that could be higher if not for the personal choice of a collective of vegans, vegetarians, and generally healthier people.
You see proof vegans aren’t making a difference. Where’s your proof that the line is unaffected by vegans? Do you have anything else that proves being vegan is an effort in futility?
Do you have anything else that proves being vegan is an effort in futility?
i’ve never said that. i think if you want to avoid animal products, then doing so is its own reward. but if you want to decrease animal slaughter, it’s ineffective.
i suggest that you go where animals are being slaughtered and stop it.
…it sounds like you are blaming vegans for factory farmers actions.
You’re refusing to get this point right: I’m blaming vegans for public disinterest, which indirectly allows the factories to completely maximize profits by squeezing the animals they use.
Its a waste of time in my opinion…
I know you think that. You’re vegan.
You don’t care about the pig in the pen any more than you care about the prey in the field. What bothers you is that there are carnivores on your block. A cow could be tortured and slaughtered at 5, or live comfortably in a large field and die of natural causes, it makes no difference to you. You’re bothered by the steak on the plate. That’s your fight.
First of all, plenty of vegans are activists, doing the stuff you are talking about. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
The problem is people wanting to be animal rights activists but giving no moral consideration to animals and doing absurdly hypocritical things like contributing to the system they stand in opposition of.
Apparently you just want to be able to eat guilt free meat? Seems to be what you accomplish with your “framework” of being anti vegan, anti factory farm, but pro eating meat.
You can literally enforce better conditions in farms, making factory farming practices illegal, and it’s possible we could’ve had the support required to make it happen.
If you amend your messaging and behavior even a little bit, it might still be possible.
How would we do that without dramatically reducing the amount of meat being produced?
As for the support, it sounds like you are blaming vegans for factory farmers actions. If they want to do things more humanely they are free to do it.
Its a waste of time in my opinion, and its hypocritical to be an animal activist who eats animals.
We can have a conversation about the ethical slaughterhouse in your mind but I guarantee you we will not agree on what is ethical treatment of an animal if thats the case.
maybe you can’t, but it seems like you think that would be a good outcome.
Whats wrong with reducing meat production?
i didn’t say there is anything wrong with it. and if their plan (increased welfare standards) leads to that, i would think you would support it.
Well, one plan involves convincing western politicians and the companies that pay for them, to self regulate. The other involves personal choice.
So I guess I chose the easy one.
Also vegans do participate in animal activism of course. They just won’t argue for better ways to slaughter animals.
but if it’s ineffective, then it is no better.
Well, your graph could just as easily support my position as it could go against it.
I see a line that could be higher if not for the personal choice of a collective of vegans, vegetarians, and generally healthier people.
You see proof vegans aren’t making a difference. Where’s your proof that the line is unaffected by vegans? Do you have anything else that proves being vegan is an effort in futility?
you can’t prove a counterfactual. but it is a fact that vegans exist, and the chart continues to rise.
i’ve never said that. i think if you want to avoid animal products, then doing so is its own reward. but if you want to decrease animal slaughter, it’s ineffective.
i suggest that you go where animals are being slaughtered and stop it.
no, it’ can’t. this is an unscientific claim.
You’re refusing to get this point right: I’m blaming vegans for public disinterest, which indirectly allows the factories to completely maximize profits by squeezing the animals they use.
I know you think that. You’re vegan.
You don’t care about the pig in the pen any more than you care about the prey in the field. What bothers you is that there are carnivores on your block. A cow could be tortured and slaughtered at 5, or live comfortably in a large field and die of natural causes, it makes no difference to you. You’re bothered by the steak on the plate. That’s your fight.
First of all, plenty of vegans are activists, doing the stuff you are talking about. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
The problem is people wanting to be animal rights activists but giving no moral consideration to animals and doing absurdly hypocritical things like contributing to the system they stand in opposition of.
Apparently you just want to be able to eat guilt free meat? Seems to be what you accomplish with your “framework” of being anti vegan, anti factory farm, but pro eating meat.
Thank you for standing up against this hypocritical carnist defending animal abuse.