I really do feel like I’m taking crazy pills with libs this election. The last two they at least had a bloodless rationale to the “lesser of two evils” rhetoric.

But this is genocide, the canonical Worst Thing You Can DO! I know many just believe that it’s not a genocide at all because Palestinian civilians are all Hamas and just subhuman or that the videos published by official IOF channels are all deepfaked by the hungry ghost of Nasrallah. But then just FUCKING SAY IT and then we can call you a genocide denier and we’ll know where we stand!

What I can’t get is that many do seem to agree it’s a genocide and Kamala is complicit. But then they lesser evil by going “Well if we don’t vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here.”

Like Fuck You! You scheming, gaslighting bloody handed monster!

Either this is just a disingenuous argument to get your team in power or to maintain liberal civility politics, in which case double Fuck You that you think people are abstract political tools.

Or, you actually believe this, and the freedom of an LGBT person here outweighs the lives of 2 million people, many LGBT, who happen to have had the extreme misfortune to be born 5 cm over the border and thus outside your ability to feel empathy.

In which case Triple Fuck You, because you are, somehow, more of a fascist than Trump. At least Trump is too incoherent to make a complete argument for fascist policy!

I’m going mad, I really am. How can people be streamed genocide live on CNN and just say “well, I guess we’re ok with genocide now!” Is the US public even human?! Even the fucking Germans had the good sense to pretend to look guilty after they lost.

  • Angel [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    78·
    9 days ago

    Liberals get so scratched when you tell them that you’re a marginalized person who wants them to fuck off.

    They love to exploit the hell out of the underprivileged (unless said underprivileged people are Arab Americans) to make their case as to why you have to vote

    Racial justice, women’s rights, and LGBTQ+ equality are all just tools they use to act as if they’re any less bourgeois, chauvinistic, and ultimately fascist in nature than Republicans.

  • kivork [he/them]@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    70·
    9 days ago

    Seriously, it turns out all it took to get regular people to support hitler was to just get a 2nd hitler.

    It short circuits them

  • frauddogg [they/them, null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
    57·
    9 days ago

    But then they lesser evil by going “Well if we don’t vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here.”

    I don’t know if they understand how much it looks like they use our LGBTQ+ comrades as a human shield. “Either become complicit in our genocide of the browns, or we’ll let our controlled opposition kill disadvantaged subjects-of-empire here”. In a climate where the primary slander against you in the first place is that you are unintelligible from a Republican, when the secondary slander against you is that you’re forming a uniparty with right-wingers, why would you phrase a threat like this that only makes it sound more like you peckerwood yankees are in bed together?

    I fuckin hate Amerikans, I swear to god. Whatever happens to us, we deserve if Kamala gets in. Hell, even if she doesn’t.

    • Mardoniush [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      37·
      9 days ago

      I swear I am more JDPON pilled every day. Not because I don’t think the USA has revolutionary potential but because dear god someone needs to end this miserable nation ASAP.

      • frauddogg [they/them, null/void]@hexbear.netEnglish
        33·
        9 days ago

        Not because I don’t think the USA has revolutionary potential but because dear god someone needs to end this miserable nation ASAP.

        I’ve been in a state of both for the past four years, and honestly? I’m not betting on that feeling subsiding anytime soon.

    • GoodGuyWithACat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      30·
      9 days ago

      That makes perfect sense. The Democrats (maybe intentionally?) keep POC, women, queer, and trans folk on such an insecure position that they never feel safe. Instead of making drastic change while they are in power, the Dems only make changes that can instantly be undone by their Republican partners.

  • Crucible [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    54·
    9 days ago

    It breaks liberals brains to learn that there are people to their left when their entire political spectrum is hitler to bernie, so to maintain their sense of moral superiority which defines their relationship to their politics they have to bend and twist their brains to make actual leftists into worse people

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      17·
      9 days ago

      Stalin blah blah blah 100 million victims of communism and now they’re just openly committing the most documented genocide in history.

      Like what the hell were the libs whining about? Stalin did some bullshit “genocide”? Turns out libs are actually fine with that as long as it’s not an authoritarian genocide!

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    50·
    9 days ago

    Honestly I’m not sure I’m even really processing how Libs are behaving right now. Like I’m pretty sure I’m in some kind of denial after the Libs derailed the uprising in '20 and killed MeToo, Abolish the Police, minimum wage, and public healthcare, plus they ended all attempts to even slow Covid down, and now they’re proudly, openly committing genocide in front of the whole world.

    It’s too much. It’s Fascism with bottomless mimosas.

  • queermunist she/her@lemmy.mlEnglish
    50·
    9 days ago

    It’s pure cynicism.

    They believe the genocide is unstoppable and inevitable, so they write it off as an issue entirely. I’ve literally been told “genocide is not on the ballot” on multiple occasions. Because of the structural issues with US elections we can’t stop the genocide by voting PSL, or Green, or staying home. In their minds they don’t see the point of not voting for the lesser of two genicidiers.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.mlEnglish
        27·
        9 days ago

        Literally yes, but genocide is “not on the ballot” in the same way that a vote for anyone other than Harris is a vote for Trump.

        They’ve got their whole cynical calculus worked out and think they’re just making a hard choice for the greater good. 🙄

        I hate this country lol

  • BeamBrain [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    49·
    9 days ago

    They’re making the choice to sacrifice Palestinians for their own comfort. By refusing to go along with that, we force them to confront the fact that it is a choice, that they’re willingly making themselves complicit in genocide for their own gain. That’s why they hate us.

    • very_poggers_gay [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      32·
      9 days ago

      I’m paraphrasing a comment I saw elsewhere, but every time the Vote Blue type evokes some fake moral superiority that leftists have (e.g., “You think you’re more moral, but XYZ”), they are just telling on themself that they know they are morally wrong. They know their vote is not a moral act - they might even know they’re supporting something that contradicts their moral code - and they hate that we see that.

  • Stolen_Stolen_Valor [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    49·
    9 days ago

    My response to people who say “if we don’t vote for Kamala then X will happen to Y here at home…” has just been “Why can’t she do both?” If they continue after that then I just say “If the price for my rights is thousands of dead Palestinians, I refuse to bargain with the devil.”

    • Mardoniush [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      47·
      9 days ago

      At which point they’re all “Well if you want to virtue signal from your moral high horse go ahead, meanwhile I am doing the realistic, practical calculation of a truly gigantic political mind! you see, if 9 incredibly improbable legislative reforms are passed, then we can roll back 50% of this genocide in a mere 12 terms!”

      Yes, Yes I am on the moral fucking high horse of “No genocide” why the fuck aren’t you this is a horse everyone who isn’t so evil you can’t use their first name to name children anymore should have!

        • Mardoniush [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          28·
          9 days ago

          Mask of the Bourgoisie slips “Hey you better put that back on it was only supposed to slip for a moment”

          Inhuman Bourgosie throws mask in gasoline, lights it on fire, does little inhuman dance

      • GoodGuyWithACat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        26·
        9 days ago

        If anyone throws the word “practical” at you, it’s easy to throw it back at them. I want genocide to end, therefor it’s not pragmatic to vote for the genocide party.

        • Mardoniush [she/her]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
          8·
          9 days ago

          Ah, but you see if the dems are in power for a mere 30 years then we can implement RCV because dems in congress definitely want to undercut their own power and then we can vote in a third party and the dead Palestinians will magically spring back to life.

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        18·
        9 days ago

        The Kingdom of Conscience will be exactly as it is now. Moralists don’t really have beliefs. Sometimes they stumble on one, like on a child’s toy left on the carpet. The toy must be put away immediately. And the child reprimanded. Centrism isn’t change – not even incremental change. It is control. Over yourself and the world. Exercise it. Look up at the sky, at the dark shapes of Coalition airships hanging there. Ask yourself: is there something sinister in moralism? And then answer: no. God is in his heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.

  • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    47·
    9 days ago

    It’s also very funny (not actually) because what is Harris going to do for LGBTQ people? Not that her or any Democrat’s symbolic rhetoric mean anything but have the words “transgender” even come out of her mouth this campaign?

    • Wertheimer [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      521·
      9 days ago

      Zero states had banned gender affirming care when Trump was president. Under Biden, more than 20 have. He has done absolutely nothing for the people in those states.

      • DragonBallZinn [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        30·
        9 days ago

        I’m surprised Harris didn’t run on “we let you ban gender-affirming care! See, us dems aren’t so scary after all and totally in-touch with the working class and their priorities!”

        • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          20·
          9 days ago

          Wdym? Harris said she’d “proudly sign it into law” if congress passed a law protecting abortion, as you can see democrats are clearly fighting tooth and nail for women’s reproductive rights!

      • Yeat [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        21·
        9 days ago

        Not to mention, Biden presided over the overturning of Roe v Wade and did absolutely nothing about it. The only thing Harris said she’d do about it is “sign a law if congress passes one” oh boy!

    • GrumpigPoopBalls [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      43·
      9 days ago

      nah they cut all of the actually good empty promises from the platform this year and replaced them with tough border measures and warmongering so that 17 republicans in suburban georgia would think about voting for Harris before deciding to go with trump

    • Jenniferrr [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      30·
      9 days ago

      No literally it’s going to be “Not actively take away trans healthcare” so it’s a hostage situation.

      I’ll be honest as a trans woman I’m pretty nervous for Republicans to take power, as a self interested person. Dems clearly won’t do anything to help though and if the supreme court makes some ruling they won’t fight it.

      • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
        10·
        8 days ago

        fwiw: it’ll be like living in the decades between reagan and bush (1980-2008) and this community still thrived enough to change popular sentiment about lgbt issues; despite the efforts of democrats like clinton & biden during that time.

        i was most active during those decades and every win, no matter how small, was deeply re-affirming and helped a lot in keeping us going.

        i hope that, in the future, the definition of an ally narrows to exclude anyone who thinks that democrats are automatically allies so that they can’t keep trotting us out like a show horse to prove how progressive democrats think they are.

    • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
      9·
      9 days ago

      the same thing biden did with the respective for marriage act: nothing but political capital for themselves.

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    42·
    9 days ago

    The thing I don’t see people saying enough is that there will be elections after Trump, and a vote for third parties that allows Trump to win is much less damaging in the long term than a vote that enables the rightward slide of the Democrats.

      • jolliver_bromwell [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        31·
        9 days ago

        I am seeing an awful lot of that. The actual impracticality of the mechanics of installing a forever dictator with germanic cosplay features in the us and the greater likelihood of tacit approval of non state actors enforcing small scale actions in a local context are lost on them because their minds are warped by cartoons and comic book movies and great man theory.

        Best response (if you have the energy) is to ask why they’re admitting that they’d throw away their principles and just accept fascism forever because of an election (even though you know why and they basically already do). Ask why they’re admitting they’d do nothing materially to fight back against fascism or protect the marginalized people they say they care so much about and let a demographic minority, especially in bluer areas, just go ham on everyone. It’s not likely to change many minds but it will remind them that they’re cowards with no real principles or goals besides protecting their status quo.

      • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        29·
        9 days ago

        Which is exactly what they said last time. And then he gir elected. And then there were elections 4 years later and he got voted out.

      • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        13·
        9 days ago

        Which is funny considering the amount of tampering the democrats have done with their own primaries. “We’ll save democracy!” they say as they do everything they can to fuck over the candidate with popular support

  • REgon [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    40·
    9 days ago

    I don’t get how I can see people well into their 50’s talking about voting for the “lesser evil.” I always think of this Hunter S. Thompson quote:

    That’s the real issue this time," he said. “Beating Nixon. It’s hard to even guess how much damage those bastards will do if they get in for another four years.”

    The argument was familiar, I had even made it myself, here and there, but I was beginning to sense something very depressing about it. How many more of these goddamn elections are we going to have to write off as lame, but “regrettably necessary” holding actions? And how many more of these stinking double-downer sideshows will we have to go through before we can get ourselves straight enough to put together some kind of national election that will give me and the at least 20 million people I tend to agree with a chance to vote for something, instead of always being faced with that old familiar choice between the lesser of two evils?

    Now with another one of these big bogus showdowns looming down on us, I can already pick up the stench of another bummer. I understand, along with a lot of other people, that the big thing this year is Beating Nixon. But that was also the big thing, as I recall, twelve years ago in 1960 – and as far as I can tell, we’ve gone from bad to worse to rotten since then, and the outlook is for more of the same.

    That’s from Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail from 1972
    50 years ago that was a tired argument. 50 years!

  • Deadend [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    39·
    9 days ago

    The blue MAGA people also screamed in rage at us for months and years about any sort of leftward movement on policies and demanded VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO before Biden or Harris even had any 2024 policies in place.

    If you want to play electoralism games… you need to say “if you want my vote - Do This” Instead all of these Blue MAGA fuckers went “you have my vote coconut brat queen, but also please do these policies!”

    Which gave Harris explicit permission to run as far right wing as possible to try and pick off Trump supporters who only support Trump because they legitimately think he has some good ideas but don’t like him but would have voted for him, which is such an extremely small group of weirdos consisting entirely of Dick Cheney and his daughter.

  • glimmer_twin [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    38·
    9 days ago

    The mental gymnastics are relatively simple, it’s:

    1. It’s not genocide
    2. If it is, it’s by accident
    3. If it’s not, they deserved it
    4. Trump is literally hitler I’m shaking and pissing this is the most important election of our lives

    Most people don’t even reach step 1 because they’re American and completely subconsciously dismiss the idea that foreign people exist or matter at all.

  • egg1918 [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    37·
    9 days ago

    But then they lesser evil by going “Well if we don’t vote then Trump will do bad things to trans people here.”

    I saw that video this morning of her refusing to say anything in defense of us. They don’t even have this bullshit any more!