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Libs would rather cry for months about how they completely botched an election than do anything to stop a genocide.
Rashida Tlaib won 62-38 in a district that Harris lost 43-32-15 R/D/G. The idea that Libs can’t win or that Libs won’t stop genocide is flatly false. They exist. But they’re also at the top of the AIPAC hit-list (Cori Bush and Jamal Bowmen were two other staunch anti-genocide candidates forced out during their primaries) so they have to fight for their lives in their own primaries rather than turning out the vote nationally for their candidates.
The dirty truth is that Dems can be gaslit and railroaded by a fascist white nationalist press as easily as any Republican. We saw a hard right tilt this election because we were flooded with hard right propaganda over the last two years.
Pinning the results of a tsunami of fascist media on individual voters is just blaming the victims. When your social media is owned and operated by apartheidists and gusanos why are you surprised to see voters adopt their views? Garbage In, Garbage Out.
I’m sure some of these strawman exist in a field somewhere keeping the crows away.
Democrats need to get rid of First Past The Post voting in the blue states they control. Time to admit they need help and shouldn’t be going alone against the republicans
More democracy. More chances to defeat the republicans. More people engaged and involved in the political process.
More people voting = more votes for democrats. More chances of republicans electing a more moderate candidate.Electoral reform is an absolute win for the people of this country. Except for the legacy poltical parties. They will unfortunately have to compete for your vote. If they are unable to stay relevant, that’s on them for becoming weak and frail using FPTP as a crutch.
It’s really sad. It’s really sad that reality has no effect on the people.
Why would people vote for Republican Lite, if there’s the real deal? At least now we know chasing these Republican votes was foolish and that we should campaign on universal leftist points. Right? Right???
No, it’s the voters who are wrong. FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
I WAS going to do SO MUCH organizing this time… if Harris had bought us time. But alas, all strikes will go to Trump’s desk now so why even bother. /s
FPTP requires us to vote for people in favor of FPTP.
Even the referendum efforts slammed into a brick wall this year
RCV failed in Missouri, Colorado, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, and (likely) in Alaska. People don’t like it as a system.
It’s nice to see people discussing the voting system. Nows the time to talk about opening up the electoral system to 3rd parties right for sure.
If you get the chance, swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss how you and the people of your state can pressure your leaders into implementing electoral reform.
I’m never voting Democrat again. You had 13 months to stop the genocide but you didn’t, allowing it to be passed on to Trump.
Trump says the quiet part out loud. But we have Biden recorded privately saying he’d kill Arab women and children all the way back in 1982. His unconditional support of the genocide proves he hasn’t changed since.
We didn’t vote for Harris because we knew you weren’t going to pushback on the genocide with her as president just like you didn’t when Biden was president. Now you’re blaming us for Trump despite that all Arab and Muslim American voters still won’t give Harris the 10 million votes she needs to win the popular vote let alone the electoral college.
Edit 1:
I voted for Jill Stein. Voting for Trump sends the wrong message since he too is pro-genocide.
Edit 2:
If you opposed the genocide you really had no option but to vote for Jill Stein and/or Claudia De la Cruz. Voting Democratic sends the message that the genocide doesn’t affect how you vote and you don’t care if it continues. Voting Republican sends a similar message since they are openly pro-genocide and actually take the Bible’s apocalyptic ending literally. Staying at home doesn’t work either, because if you can’t be bothered to voice your opposition to genocide then future candidates won’t bother to listen.
From the first month it was clear to me that the genocide will continue no matter who wins. It was clear neither party nor core base of voters care about it. If neither party nor base sees us as humans worthy of empathy, you can’t act entitled to our human-animal votes. We already knew Republicans saw us as animals with no regard to our lives. But to find out that all along the Democrats saw us at best indoor pets and are more than happy to send us to a farm upstate.
Edit 3:
And no, I am not afraid nor care what comes next. I can’t imagine anything worse than genocide and I am not in any way better than a Gazan. If they can lose their livelihoods and lives abruptly and unfairly, I don’t see why I should be spared. I’d rather take the chance no matter how small and vote for ending the genocide rather than to just save myself/group.
A lot of words to say you did not vote against obvious fascists.
Good job dunking on the people your side needs to win over. Keep the smugness going, it will really help.
Is the problem with fascism its degree of obviousness or its consequences?
I mean in all fairness we did tell them that exactly this would happen. It’s their open damn fault they, and the rest of us, now have to try and survive in the still-rotting corpse of democracy.
Edit, add: Their self centered, short-sighted voting choice has screwed over everybody else along with them. I’m not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they’ve invited on themselves, whether through stupidity, logical fallacy, ignorance, emotional thinking, or (in the case of actual T supporters) actually believing blatantly stupid bullshit.
I’m not going to feel particularly bad about the hardships they’ve invited on themselves
It is not like you cared about the genocide when Biden was president. At least now the decorum is gone.
Hell, the only thing Harris voters have left is the bitter pleasure of watching the Trump voters and non-voters suffer with us. I will not extend an ounce of anything but schadenfreude their way for any bit of pain they feel as a consequence of their own actions.
Eh, never said I couldn’t wait, just that any sympathy I have is gone. Actions have consequences and I’m not gonna feel bad for people who face them and voted for them. Or earned them by not voting.
classic neoliberal compassion
At some point, “They want to see us literally dead and we just want them to have healthcare” has to become, “Well, at least they’ll die, too.”
Twenty million people includes a majority of democrats. You did this to yourselves, and you did it to everyone else too. You’re scum, you’ve probably destroyed democracy, and when the republicans start their pogroms, I’m not going to shed tears for liberals. You got us into this mess, so you can do the dying.
Wow, you big mad. I certainly didn’t, and blaming liberals for electing Trump is maybe the stupidest way to shed your guilt you could’ve chosen lol
If there were 20 million leftists, you wouldn’t be able to laugh at us every election. This is your fault, whether you want to admit it or not. Democrats stayed home in record numbers, and failed the nation.
The thing is, leftists are armed. Liberals are not. It’s not us who has to worry about nazis coming. We’re gonna look out for our queer and trans brothers and sisters, but you guys? You can have a front row seat to Gaetz weaponizing the DOJ and taking revenge on you for defying Trump. It’s gonna be a rough four years for you.
There isn’t 20 million pro-Palestinian people in the US. You liberals don’t want to admit it, but it was YOU who stayed home on Election Day. You made all that fuss about us needing to elect your YASS QUEEN SLAY corporate-funded DEI “hashtag ally” plutocrat, then didn’t even have the decency to get off your fat fucking asses, and skip brunch and your wine break for one fucking day to actually do your civic duty and vote.
That is not a new pose for Republicans.
From 2011:
Newt Gingrich is standing by comments he made earlier this week when he called the Palestinians an “invented” people. “Remember, there was no Palestine as a state.”
You’re kidding, right? There’s no way the guy’s name is literally “newt grinch”!
You’re right, that’s not his name.
It’s literally not “Newt Grinch”, it’s Newton Gingrich. This is your first time hearing of him?
I would like to recall some comments saying “Kamala is worse than the same”
A very tiny majority of people think of Gaza in the voting booth.
A very tiny majority
ok.
A solid chunk of gen z sat out for this reason bc dumbass shit they saw on tiktok
blaming everyone but Harris/Biden for Harris/Bidens choice and a badly out of touch campaign.
You centrists just cannot accept reality and refuse to introspect. Seems like you will try the exact same thing if dems ever return to power. Its miserable being in a coalition with you losers.
They could have literally never campaigned on anything and voting for them against trump would still be the only moral choice, so your attempts to blame them for the moral failings of the 10m who sat this one out…totally insane.
You seem like a “don’t blame me I voted for Nader” type of oblivious.
Funny you bring up Nader. You’re basically admitting the democrats understood the flaws of the voting system and did nothing to fix the issue.
The democrats preferred trump and losing power over having to compete for your vote against 3rd parties on a level playing field. Almost 30 years of inaction on First Past the Post voting? Unforgiveable.
dumbass shit they saw on tiktok
You mean genocide?
Hey! I had fuckin nothing to do with this!
Lay it off with blaming people who are mad at Democrats about Gaza for Trump. Honestly, it’s tired, inaccurate, and wrong. Trump won the popular vote. The Dems ran a shitty campaign, they had no message, and failed to inspire 10 million of their previous voters.
20% of the population is functionally illiterate in any language, an no one could out simplify Trump’s simplified language, ‘I good, she bad’.
Hard pills for Dems to swallow: there is only one cure of Right Populism, and it’s Left Populism.
No, surely it’s more special interest and foreign funding. If they had gotten just a bit more money from AIPAC, they could have won!
You truly believe there’s nothing else at play? Being in the midst of a pandemic in 2020 had no part in voter turnout?
A lot of states expanded mail in voting. Probably removed a pretty large barrier of people who’d rather stay home than wait in line.
Sure, but unfortunately many people don’t care about elections unless it directly and immediately impacts them. A war or a pandemic would absolutely and invariably rally more people to want change than adding little conveniences like mail ballots.
Why? That category of people objectively exists and that category of people objectively chose this and that category of people objectively made an illogical decision against their own interests. Nowhere in the meme is it saying “all voters are in this category”, it’s simply indicating this category of voter exists which is objectively true.
Why?
Because it absolves the Democratic Party of its responsibility. They said this election was about preserving democracy. Then they didn’t do EVERYTHING THEY COULD to get every last person hyped to vote for them. Instead, they complacently chose to ignore the legitimate concerns of a whole number of constituencies. They offered nothing to counter Right Populism. No grand vision, nothing to inspire anyone. They even leashed Walz, for fuck’s sake. They let Trump waltz around in Michigan pandering to muslims while either doing fuck all or kicking their own muslim democratic leaders out of their rallies. The. Democrats. Fucked. Up. Stop blaming the voters, blame the Democrats. Otherwise, if your country has fair elections in 4 years, you’ll have the same fucking problem all over again.
With a more representative electoral system, these people you wish to suffer because you dislike them would be able to vote for a political party that best represents them while still counting their vote against the republicans.
Why are you okay with your fellow country men/women/and more being under represented by First-past-the-post voting?
God, you liberals are disgusting scum. MLK was right about you, you are the greatest threat to justice.
Libs would rather make fun of their genocide that they’re funding than resist it.
That’s literally why nobody votes for y’all creeps.
Why should we accept genocide as normal? I don’t get it? Is it because it is happening to Arabs?
At least now we know many Democratic voters are just as racist as Republican voters just tacit about it
Kinda low bar to clear. The fact she didn’t screwed her.
Don’t have to be perfect, just good enough, and she couldn’t even do that.
Imagine unironically making this meme. I envy the history students in 2138 who get to study this crap and scratch their heads
The History students of the Future will watch all those who sat by as complicit in the rise of an authoritarian racist President in the USA
Those 20 million people who sat by were democrats. But sitting by while facism rises is kinda your thing, isn’t it? Too bad you can’t hand-wring your way into a better union, huh?
How cute to think this is the first authoritarian racist president. You should check out the rest of USA history sometime.
The history is already set. The dems ran a mediocre campaign after the sitting president flubbed a debate and lied about his physical ailments. It was a campaign so out of touch with voters that they lost the entire government.
Look at this genocide enthusiast. Nah, if the Democrats are going to support Israel unconditionally they deserve to lose. If saving the US means that the US will continue supporting Israel then better if the US is unsaved. I voted for Jill Stein and don’t regret it, but I still regret voting for genocide Joe in 2020.
I’m pretty sure the anti-genocide people were the ones violently confronting Nazis four years ago while the Democratic mainstream said that wasnt the right way to do things.
Probably lots of overlap with the people who blockaded and flooded airports and courts to stop the Muslim ban.
Probably closely related to the people who put their bodies on the line and blockaded ICE detention facilities.
I’d bet they were involved in organizing the BLM protests too.
Nah, man.
The real Antifa are the ones brunching and quietly judging while they sip their mimosas.
quietly?
Fair point.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
MLKJ, “Letter from Birmingham Jail”
You remind me of the MAGoos who only quote Martin’s line about judging people on the character and not the color of their skin. Using that letter ignores the fact that the letter was written before the Liberals passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Harris lost and Trump is getting ready to nuke Gaza. Maybe it’s time for you to reassess your plans.
I’m arguing that we should be working in and with working class communities to tangibly improve their material conditions and you’re comparing me to a MAGA?
That’s some weird dissonance.
You mean the voting rights act that was gutted by the supreme court while liberals just watched?
Did they expand the supreme court? pass ethics legislation? add term limits? use the same dirty tactics the Republicans use? censure Synema and Manchin for being republicans?
They sure didn’t. But the Republicans sure made sure Liz Cheney knew she wasn’t welcome in the party anymore.
Seeing how this is the 2nd time in a decade that moderate liberals have lost an election due to their lack of widespread support, maybe it’s time to reconsider their appeal to the increasingly hypothetical “average” American and listen to the base.
Depend what they will write in history books…
Imagine not understanding first past the post elections and harm reduction.
The people of Palestine asked us to vote against Trump. But they’re not worth listening to. They’re not even real.
There is no harm reduction. Kamala didn’t support a cease fire, and she refused to stop the flow of weapons or support. The choices were killing kids fast, or killing them slowly. You don’t get to act self righteous, like there’s a more moral choice there.
Democrats are baby killers.
DID she really understand FPTP if she wouldn’t acknowledge it as a problem?
Yes. It’s not a problem for her.
But your question makes me think you don’t… FPTP benefits the two major parties. It’s completely illogical to think they would not like it.
Or did you mean that she should’ve lied about her real opinion on order to get more votes?
Evidently it was a problem for her.
we are simultaneously a small amd pathetic minority, but also able to swing a major election on a major country. just pick one already.
5 million is a small minority in a country of 300 million.
5 million votes means a lot when it’s a close election.
Sounds like the Dems should have pandered better to them then. They had a billion dollars to find out what marginal vote block would give them the edge.
Even if Dems won Michigan, they still lost Georgia and Pennsylvania. 5 million votes is a lot, but where those votes come from matter in our system
Progressives are 8% of the voting population. So they are more like 27 million voters.
I mean, honestly, I don’t think people protesting Democrats because of the genocide were what caused Dems to lose. I honestly believe it was because the Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires. That being said, anyone who voted for trump thinking he’d be better is an absolute fool.
It may have been a factor in Michigan. Their are about 300 Arab and Muslim Americans in Michigan, an estimated 200K of which are registered to vote, and Uncommitted vote had about 100K votes in the primary, which is less than Trump’s margin of victory. There’s going to be a lot of nuance examining how the anti-Genocide voters might have affected the electoral map, and I’m not sure we’ll ever get a straight answer.
It doesn’t matter to people who share these memes, though. They don’t like looking at the numbers. In their head, they have an image of a young, entitled white kid with a Genocide Joe sign who just wouldn’t listen to reason. An analysis would probably show that person is more likely to be Arab or Muslim with close ties to the Palestinian community, and that knowledge would make them uncomfortable.
Dems refused to acknowledge that times are hard for non-billionaires.
Agreed. It’s why the number of people who just didn’t vote dwarfs the number of people who switched parties.
i don’t think leftists voted for trump though.
it’s almost like every vote matters.
*~only applies to swing states~
None of them voted for Trump. You can look at the voting numbers. Trump’s numbers are pretty much in line with what he got in 2020. He didn’t gain votes she lost them. People stayed home.
Staying home this election was a vote for Trump. Hope they like it.
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse. If you don’t sell yourself to your voters if you don’t give them a reason to vote for you then you’re going to keep losing. They act entitled to everyone’s votes. Entitlement is a big problem when it comes to Democrats. People didn’t respond to them saying it was Hillary’s turn. People didn’t seem to respond to them saying it was Harris’s turn. Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. They claim to, but when it comes time to participating democracy they’re not big fans.
I mean, it works with the Republican campaign, why didn’t work for the Democrats campaign? Literally, Trump spent most of his campaign demonizing the other side.
That’s what irks me about the “Harris lost because she ran a terrible campaign” argument. The reality is, Trump ran a far worse campaign. In the final months, the dude was up on stage saying stuff that made medical physicians think he was mentally declining. The guy wasn’t forming sentences, and he was talking about the size of some dudes dick.
We have all of these people trying to explain Harris’s failure without also recognizing the campaign that Trump ran. This is not a genuine way of analyzing the results of this election. The reality is Harris’s campaign had some blunders, but the Trump campaign had far more major blunders in comparison; but he still won. I would like to know how that happened…
At a certain point Democrats are going to have to remember that they can’t just rely on the other side being worse.
If this election didn’t wake them the fuck up, then nothing will. I’m not expecting anything to change though. It’s going to be the same every election because they refuse to make a meaningful change.
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Democrats don’t seem to like democracy. Voters don’t care about democracy. Republicans actually hate democracy.
Why do we follow democracy again? Let’s just give Trump endless terms, once and for all.
I think voters realize that this isn’t a “democracy” in any meaningful sense. What’s the point of even voting outside of a swing state? The whole system is a con created so slave masters can stay in power.
I don’t think we really need to concern ourselves with such trivial things as what the Democrats should do next time.
Yeah, about that ship that you think hasn’t sailed yet…
There’s not going to be a next election for you, kitties.
Drag has not confirmed this rumour, but has heard that Trump got less votes in solid states and more votes in swing states. Apparently it was a lower turnout election in all categories except for Trump voters in swing states.
I am not convinced any significant number of people voted for Trump because they supported Palestine. Feels like a massive straw man meant to stoke divisions in the left.
They didn’t vote for Trump - they misunderstood the system that was in place.
Republican citizen groups have been going over the rolls in key states and removing by challenge registered Democrats who had any small errors on their registration sowing confusion and making otherwise eligible people ineligible.
Republican resources were used to amplify third party candidates who never had a hope of success due to the nature of construction of the system to create spoiler effects. If you thought Jill Stein was a real electable option you can look back at prior elections.
The concept of moral abstention from this election removed people who otherwise would have voted Democrat as the lesser of two possible evils from the system.
Basically since First past the post is a winner take all system Even if 70 percent of the public hates the Republican platform all they have to do is win a majority voting share, that doesn’t mean they have to win your vote. They just have to mean that they have to remove your vote from supporting their main competition. They can do that via sowing apathy or divison or by changing the structure of the voting process through gerrymandering and other tactics that any dedicated volunteer can do if they are willing to slog under the assumption that what they are doing is ethically sound “payback”. The fact is that these voting systems do not support the will of a majority and both established parties have benefited from that historically… But Republicans stopped playing by the rules awhile ago and they are marketing masters.
Since Republicans have basically outlined their goals to destroy the checks and balances of the system of government basically all they needed was to keep up the ruse that the system somehow rewards people who act outside of the two party choice the system was designed to deliver. Democrats, hoping to play the long game couldn’t out the system they have benefitted from as being a rigged game if they wanted it to continue … So anything but a vote for a Democratic candidate was basically automatically an increase in share to the Republicans by virtue of subtraction hence why a lot of us are unhappy…particularly those of us who tried to explain this shit beforehand and were told we were scum for supporting genocidal regimes. I don’t like Democrats but they at least support the Laissez-faire systems that allow leftists to utilize their power as private citizens to support foreign intervention. I don’t give a snowball’s chance in hell that the support people have managed to give Palestinian interests thusfar will be able to continue at all under the Republicans.
If you are concerned with 3rd party voters, then you should be working on replacing First-past-the-post voting where you live. People should have their vote counted even if their preference didn’t win. Everyone should be represented by their choices in the voting booth. People shouldn’t have to strategicly vote.
You clearly understand the flaws of the voting system, time to put it to good use.
I hope you swing by my ask lemmy post to discuss your recent commitment to passing electoral reform in your state.
I mean, I am Canadian and have been writing my MPs for literally years now and doing what rabble rousing I can but it really is a ridiculously hard system to crack. It was everybody’s election promise 10 years ago back when Trudeau was first elected and I am a part of a group of people whose rage has been simmering like the surface of the sun for decades.
Getting people to actually UNDERSTAND first past the post as a systemic weakness it is and to buy into electoral reform is grassroots hell. One thing you have going for you is that essentially the entire system is breaking down and is cause for immediate genuine alarm which if you do this right should light a fire under your asses to actually march and DEMAND change.
3rd party didn’t amount to shit. It’s the lack of a campaign that has any messages other than “vote us or you’ll get Hitler” and “we’re Republican Lite, the reasonable racist”. It’s the chasing of a handful of Republican voters which didn’t amount to shit instead of coming up with popular progressive points that are simple and effective.
50k for a home loan if you’ve been a good boy is weak. Pro military shit is exhausting. Doing nothing on Gaza was unpopular, but hey AIPAC loves it. Saying you won’t do anything different from Biden was sweet and touching for Old Joe, but a horrible idea to win an election where he’s been unpopular.
No, they didn’t, but I think a lot of people didn’t vote for Harris who otherwise would have
I understand that genocide isn’t an important issue for libs, but for most of humanity it’s pretty important.
Quite possibly but I think that has as much if not more to do with Harris massively failing to be the exciting not completely pro-establishment candidate we needed.
“I’m sorry. It was between literally the man who will destroy the country and told us as much and someone just not exciting enough. Gotta do better, Dems.”
Why would the democrats not do everything in their power to defeat the republicans? This includes giving equal access to the electoral system to 3rd parties. This is a existential threat, act like it! Bring in everybody, let’s fucking all work on this together!
Democrats preferred the country to be destroyed over having to compete for your vote. Party over country at the highest level possible.
This isn’t helpful, I never said they were smart or correct, I said I understand how we ended up here and I sympathize with people who are suffering and angry and very ignorant and susceptible to propaganda. The DNC didn’t fail at being objectively better, they failed at making people feel heard and convinced that there would be hope of real systemic change and not just roughly what we have had for the past 20-30 years.
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I think you accidentally replied instead of editing your comment
Yeah, seems likely, connect has some really annoying habits around replying to your own comment…
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while. 81 million Democrats voted in 2020, but only 71 million this year. Trump won by 3.5 million. But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
Democrats had 4 years to pass electoral reform and call in reinforcements to fight the republicans. They could have done away with FPTP voting in the states they controlled but instead sat on their hands. They didn’t do everything in their power to stop the Republicans. Democrats can no longer be trusted to go it alone.
I’m just gonna keep hammering this in for a while
…Which only reinforces the story that centrists stand for nothing and cant be trusted to lead a party-- especially a “big tent” coalition.
Oh get off your high horse. Voters don’t owe the Dems allegiance. The Dems need to win voters. They blew a billion dollars on bullshit instead of representing their electoral constituency. If you want to blame some voters blame those that voted fascist.
I think people on this site put way too much weight on the importance of Gaza for the american voter.
I’m waiting for something from Sam Harris that doesn’t devolve into a rant your problematic uncle would give. I had to give up at the cut and paste “Muslims are a big problem” part that he’s been parroting since 9/11.
The problem is this basically argues the Democratic party cannot have any diversity of opinions lest the entire party suffer. But Republicans can have fringe members who advocate positions almost all Americans find abhorrent and win across the board.
Also, the trans portion reads like a queerphobic mad libs.
The Harris campaign made plenty of other unforced errors as well. Campaigning with Liz Cheney was certainly a choice.
This was the second highest turnout in a hundred years. In the seven swing states turnout either met or exceeded 2020. This is not an interesting point.
But hey, at least all you righteous little angels aren’t “complicit in genocide”, right? Think about that while you polish your halos. YOU did this.
How are you sure that all the missing votes are caused by Pro-Palestinian purity non-voters?
It hurts too much for them to consider they’re responsible. It’s too close to self awareness.
They aren’t. But if one of them is, then that one person helped caused this. If ten thousand of them are, then those ten thousand people helped cause this.
This is not about finding the one person or group who bears sole responsibility and pointing the finger at them to excuse everyone else. This is about what each person has within their control, and whether they did the right thing.
So instead of blaming Pro-Palestinian people, why aren’t they looking into why voter turnout is so low?
Because we already know. Voter turnout is low because Americans don’t mind having a fascist dictator. Some of them just didn’t care, and some of them thought becoming the Fourth Reich and blowing up Palestine was a decent way to teach Kamala a lesson.
Some of them just didn’t care, and some of them thought becoming the Fourth Reich and blowing up Palestine was a decent way to teach Kamala a lesson
Again, you are focusing on Pro-Palestinians for some reason when you don’t know their impact.
No. Drag didn’t mention anyone who was pro-palestine at all in drag’s comment. If you’re pro-palestine and you felt targeted when drag blamed the election on people who want to blow up Palestine to teach Kamala a lesson, it might be time for some introspection.
Drag didn’t mention anyone who was pro-palestine at all in drag’s comment
some of them thought becoming the Fourth Reich and blowing up Palestine was a decent way to teach Kamala a lessonlmao @ “might be time for some introspection,” I don’t need advice regarding introspection from someone with a gimmick, I voted Kamala btw
Voter turnout wasn’t low.
and whether they did the right thing.
So the Democrats were doing the right thing by continuing to unapologetically support a fascist foreign leader in his continued Genocide?
Regardless of who anyone voted for, they voted to support a genocide, and it’s 100% on the Democrats to even put people in that position to begin with. “You can’t vote Trump, he’s a fascist! He’ll support a genocide!”
Voters: Like… You are?
Dems: …well that’s different!!!
This is not about finding the one person or group who bears sole responsibility and pointing the finger at them to excuse everyone else. This is about what each person has within their control, and whether they did the right thing.
There is no “right” thing because every single person will define it differently. To me, the right thing is supporting the working class and not supporting a fascist genocide. To you, “right” is “stop fascism, no matter what.” To another commenter, “right” might be choosing to abstain from voting because none of the candidates represent the direction or policies you feel are most important.
To Republicans, the “right” thing is to establish a christofascist autocracy. Or it’s to stop the dirty Dems. Or it’s to stop abortion.
So “right” is irrelevant, the “right” thing to do was for the Democrats to actually listen to the American people and the policies that are popular to them, and then rally that energy into a larger voter turnout. That was the only right thing to do, especially when a loss will result in fascism.
You don’t get to lecture the voters about not understanding the “right” thing to do when the leaders of the political party that’s supposed to be the last bastion against fascism honestly seemed to phone the whole fucking thing in. And this stems from the entitlement that I’ve been ranting about the DNC having for years. You aren’t entitled to anyone’s vote, regardless of “right v wrong” as far as candidates are concerned.
The Dems needed to earn their votes, and they decided a centrist campaign based on the promise that nothing will be substantially different from the last Dem who Americans feel (whether they’re right or not is irrelevant) hasn’t improved their lives substantially. Americans want change, and the Dems could do nothing during “tHe MoSt ImPoRtAnT eLeCtIoN oF oUr LiFeTiMeS” than promise the American people 4 more years of the status quo.
Dem Leaders: Wow, we had record voter turnout in 2020 running Biden on policies that Bernie had initially run on, progressive policies that seemed popular among the base! So what should our strategy be to stop fascism in 2024?
Dem Consultants: Eh, just rerun the 2016 playbook and send out 30 texts a day begging for money. We only raised over a billion dollars, we don’t need to spend that on studies and polls to find out what policies would get us voters, nah. It’s Trump, he’s a fascist moron that got trounced in 2020, we got this in the bag.
How come it’s everyone’s responsibility not to vote for genocide, but you’re allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician? Like, it’s 100% Kamala’s fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability, but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden’s failures.
How come it’s everyone’s responsibility not to vote for genocide
Because it’s genocide… Do you think the victims care if the person sending Netanyahu his bombs has a D or R next to their name?
but you’re allowed to abstain for genocide as much as you want if you can point the finger at a politician?
Yeah, that’s how the right to vote works. Can you point to the voters who are holding a gun to Biden’s head and forcing him to support a fascist leader and his genocide?
Can you point to the voters who held a gun to Kamala’s head and forced her to adopt the same policy on Israel that Biden’s administration has adhered to? Despite it being incredibly unpopular among his party’s voting base?
Like, it’s 100% Kamala’s fault you let Trump win and you therefore have zero culpability,
I voted for Harris, and my state went to Harris, so no, I did not “let Trump win.”
But yeah dude, it’s 100% Harris’ fault. You don’t get to support a genocide and then try to play morally superior to your fascist opponent who supports the same genocide…
And you don’t get to complain that it’s the voter’s fault that they wouldn’t support a candidate who wouldn’t denounce genocide, or even commit to just not supporting it like the admin she’s part of is.
Would y’all be defending the genocide and Harris/Biden’s unconditional support of it if it resulted in a draft for Americans, but not necessarily yourself? Or better yet, if you were a Palestinian in Palestine, would you be begging America to vote for Harris because of LGBTQ+ rights, or the economy’s soft landing? Or would you be asking them why they won’t elect someone who won’t support a genocide?
but the voters who tried to prevent that are personally to blame for Joe Biden’s failures.
I’m not blaming voters, period. They were given the choice between Diet Fascism or Fascism, and I don’t blame anyone for sitting that out. I fully acknowledged that regardless of my choice, I was supporting a genocide, and those lives are now at my feet.
But to act like voters have any fault in this is laughable. The DNC laid down with dogs and were shocked when they got up covered in fleas. They gave Republicans numerous spots to speak at their convention, but none to the Palestinian Democrats that the Uncommitted Movement requested be allowed to speak.
What do you call a table of 10 people sitting down with a Nazi?
11 Nazis.
You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn’t read your first two screenfuls of text
You should probably write 11 more paragraphs on how everyone who voted against genocide is a nazi, just in case somebody didn’t read your first two screenfuls of text
So just not going to try to address any of what I had to say with your own thoughts, opinions, or evidence? Just going to snidely make a comment about how I write as if your brevity somehow makes you right?
There’s that elitist, liberal entitlement the average American loves to see from the DNC. 👍 Keep winning over voters, drag, you’re doing God’s work.
I haven’t seen you explain to me how supporting Israel’s genocide unconditionally doesn’t make Harris and Biden fascist, unless I missed it scrolling by my two “screenfuls” of text. 🙄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKBJoj4XyFc
I linked this higher in this thread, but I need everyone to watch Jon Stewart’s post-mortem on Harris’ campaign. Like y’all are blaming EVERYTHING on pro-Palestinians, while not even acknowledging the republican-lite ads and interviews the Democrats ran coinciding with a bunch of pro-corporate consultants that joined her campaign in September. Or the fact that a segment of the population doesn’t like Trump, but is also racist/sexist enough to not want a black woman as president either.
Lemmy thinks they’re smarter than the MAGA crowd, but fall for neoliberal corporate sponsored propaganda instead. First it was hispanic men, then it was Gen Z, now it’s Palestine supporters. Meanwhile 57% of white people as a demographic voted for Trump, and MSNBC nor Fox News has nothing to say about that.
What is your point though, are you saying Trump and Harris are equivalent?
Of course I’m not. And if you watched Jon Stewart’s segment I linked you would understand exactly why “Trump is worse so vote Harris” doesn’t work as a gotcha.
And I voted for her, too, before you bring that up as well.
Nailed it on the head.
People want a straw man to light ablaze and blame everything on.
I’m asking you to make a point, and filling in the blank with an example which I’m glad was incorrect. So what is your point.
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire. The Muslim contingent warned them months ago and polling very clear showed that a ceasefire would have likely changed the result in several critical swing states.
Right. Team America: world police rite?
Get a good grip, child.
“Why are we responsible for the bombs we keep sending to Israel?”
They can’t bomb Gaza without american bombs or defend Tell Aviv without American GPS or or or or.
You said:
The Dems could have forced a ceasefire.
I disagree, you are not world police.
Now you say:
They can’t bomb Gaza without american bombs
To which I say: yes, but those two things are not the same, and your understanding of both geopolitics and Israel’s current armament is not as definitive as your confidence in their inability to commit atrocities without anyone’s assistance.
Don’t be so reductive. The US is very important in the “mass slaughter” math here, no one’s trying to out-kill you, you can relax, but you’re not the whole picture.
No. I’m saying the US had the technological capability to stop missiles from flying at all, the financial power to make life difficult for the Bibi regime, the political power to back the ICJ, and is in no way compelled to reprint IDF propaganda to sway the American electorate towards their pro-settler policies, but they failed on all counts. The US made Iranian nuclear refineries shake themselves apart, but US tech companies now build AI tools to aid the IDF in their campaign of total destruction.
Maybe the ceasefire wouldn’t have been total, but the polls clearly showed that the lack of effort would (and did) cost them the election.
Oh bullshit. The only way to get a ceasefire is for the Israeli people to force out Netanyahu. Nothing short of that or invading would make a difference.
eh. kinda missing the point. they didn’t even try and the polling was clear-- this policy would lose the Dems the election.
Also, South African dock workers have managed to organize and block the transfer of Israeli military goods through their ports. You telling me that South African port workers are more capable of following international law than the Us government? well, fuck it, how do I vote for them then?
Israel has its own weapons industry. Not that it matters. The Palestinians are defenseless. They could use machetes and nothing would stop them except what I already pointed out.
Yes, but they don’t have their own satellite constellation or nanometer chip forges and many of of their fancy weapons systems would be rendered useless by an Alibaba gps jammer.
Granted, this wouldn’t do a whole lot for the IMU guided systems, but the US has literally been shooting down missiles in transit for a year when they fly towards Israel. you telling me that shit only works in one direction?
I love how you said “complicit in genocide” unironically.
Really shows low standards have fallen for Democrats.
Denotes sarcasm. Trump et al. Will increase the genocide instead of having a shot at stopping it. They are still complicit in genocide, more so, arguably
The only thing arguable here is whether or not Democrats still possess any degree of objectivity.
They had hard data that continuing to enthusiastically support and fund genocide would cost them at the polls. Then, approximately ten million people decide not to vote. It’s asinine to take the stance that the voters are at fault here. This argument is like punching someone in the face and then blaming the victim for the fact that you injured your hand.
Yes, I too remeber when Kamala said nothing about ceasefires https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html
Or how trump and his friends were all about saving palestine
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
Yes, certainly blaming the person for bring punched in the face here, uhuh.
If someone is bombing your friends, family, and neighbors… do you care what they say or what they do?
Be reasonable.
You realize she isn’t potus and can’t stop these things? Be reasonable. Palestine will now be relegated to the history books.
She is an extension of the POTUS and the policies of this admin, and it doesn’t matter what she said as long as Biden was sending WMD’s to Israel mid-genocide.
You aren’t making sense.
Absolutely more so, not voting against Trump was morally reprehensible because of what he will do to Gaza as well as people here
“My purity is a precious delicate flower, I’m not going to soil it by voting for Democrats. Palestinians can take comfort in that!”
“Why can’t my politicians mesmerize me every day? I don’t want no competent government nerds in Washington, I need to be mesmerized every day to muster up the precious energy to go and vote!”
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won’t. They have now shown themselves to be as ignorant stupid and heartless and fickle and impatient and lazy as medieval peasants.
They are just as fucked up as their baby boomer parents or grandparents who gave Reagan and his cadre of assholes the keys to the kingdom.
I will never, EVER overestimate or respect the younger generations, who can vote and won’t.
Did you even notice that Harris lost amongst every single demographic except college educated whites? She got slaughtered amongst the native American vote even more than the youth vote. So how about you be consistent and talk down to the native American voters. Go ahead.
You just can’t fathom that this is the Democrats fault, eh? It was their Republican Lite campaign, so it’s their fault. Not young people, not Latinos, not muslims. Leftists couldn’t say shit about how this wouldn’t workall year, because that would only help Trump. Now they’re at fault. Maybe you can think about a course change for once instead of blaming anybody but the party elites that are only invested in donor interests.
